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  #49  
Old March 8th, 2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

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Customs, for the 42nd time, are more than welcome to be played at one of the open play events and we even encourage you to run an event at that time frame if you wish.
I know that VC is allowed in the Open Play events, but I think that a bigger C3V/SoV-inclusive event could also be pretty interesting. The units are balanced enough to lend themselves to a tournament structure in my opinion, and only lumping them in with all kinds of customs makes it more difficult to get in normal matches with them (nothing against other customs, of course, but I think that many have different goals than the VC ones do). Much like C3G is deserving of its own event, I'd argue that C3V/SoV is as well.

That said, I also don't know how the attendance would be because I've only been to a single GenCon before, and I can see the argument being made that C3G represents SuperheroScape whereas VC extends the classic game and thus can more easily be slotted into other events... But if there's ever a C3V/SoV event, I'd definitely want to participate.
And my response will continue to be, run whatever 3 letter custom event that you want during an open play slot. Megasilver and my bff dok have done it several times in the past and I believe they have gone ok overall.

We certainly encourage you guys to take advantage of the time we have available for you to run those sort of events.
If that’s how you feel, then would you mind explaining why C3G got its own “official” event? How is it any less “customy” than C3V/SoV?
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  #50  
Old March 8th, 2019, 01:44 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

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Customs, for the 42nd time, are more than welcome to be played at one of the open play events and we even encourage you to run an event at that time frame if you wish.
I know that VC is allowed in the Open Play events, but I think that a bigger C3V/SoV-inclusive event could also be pretty interesting. The units are balanced enough to lend themselves to a tournament structure in my opinion, and only lumping them in with all kinds of customs makes it more difficult to get in normal matches with them (nothing against other customs, of course, but I think that many have different goals than the VC ones do). Much like C3G is deserving of its own event, I'd argue that C3V/SoV is as well.

That said, I also don't know how the attendance would be because I've only been to a single GenCon before, and I can see the argument being made that C3G represents SuperheroScape whereas VC extends the classic game and thus can more easily be slotted into other events... But if there's ever a C3V/SoV event, I'd definitely want to participate.
And my response will continue to be, run whatever 3 letter custom event that you want during an open play slot. Megasilver and my bff dok have done it several times in the past and I believe they have gone ok overall.

We certainly encourage you guys to take advantage of the time we have available for you to run those sort of events.
If that’s how you feel, then would you mind explaining why C3G got its own “official” event? How is it any less “customy” than C3V/SoV?
There was a guy in charge for a few years, which I was thankful for at the time because I needed a break, and he let it in without discussing it with others. He is no longer on the committee at this time. And that’s where I’m going to leave that discussion.

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  #51  
Old March 8th, 2019, 01:57 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

Thanks for the extra insight. That makes the stance on a more "official" customs event a lot more consistent.
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  #52  
Old March 11th, 2019, 10:05 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
If that’s how you feel, then would you mind explaining why C3G got its own “official” event? How is it any less “customy” than C3V/SoV?
The bottom line for me is based on interest in the event. The Free Play time is an excellent time to run any sort of event you want. If it sells enough tickets we can certainly consider it for an event in future years. Gencon has targets for ticket sales for us so we like to hit those numbers.


If you feel strongly about your format....run it in the free play session time....show some tickets sales and we will consider it for an official slot moving forward. This is one way events get added/removed from our roster now.
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  #53  
Old March 11th, 2019, 10:49 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

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Originally Posted by lonewolf View Post
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If that’s how you feel, then would you mind explaining why C3G got its own “official” event? How is it any less “customy” than C3V/SoV?
The bottom line for me is based on interest in the event. The Free Play time is an excellent time to run any sort of event you want. If it sells enough tickets we can certainly consider it for an event in future years. Gencon has targets for ticket sales for us so we like to hit those numbers.


If you feel strongly about your format....run it in the free play session time....show some tickets sales and we will consider it for an official slot moving forward. This is one way events get added/removed from our roster now.
There is enormous pressure on GenCon event organizers to run events that they *know* will sell tickets. Quickly.

I've said in the past that if I were running GenCon, I would not allow C3V & SoV units, because your goal is to attract *everybody*, and not just people familiar with Heroscapers who know what we have going on in FanScape. But the C3V & SoV have been around for years now, with a long track record of producing high quality units that are compatible with the canon, and that deserve to stand alongside their official brothers in arms. So I think that it's time for them to be considered for inclusion in GenCon.

We have to produce evidence that they would sell tickets. I believe that C3V events have done well in the past, in Open Play events, but proving they could be successful in regular, official slots has to come before they get those slots.

I think it can be done. I think this year is the year for that to happen. Those who want to prove that C3V & SoV belong at GenCon, prove it by running and filling events in Open Play. I strongly recommend formats that are not too exotic, but I know others disagree, and (even if I come) I will not be running Open Play events this year.

I know that I would be more than happy to TD such an official event, whenever it happens in a regular (read: at a civilized time) time slot. So that would solve that problem, for the organizers. If they'd have me.

My .

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  #54  
Old March 11th, 2019, 11:07 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

The C3V events in the past did tend to be exotic formats. I know the very last year of it was some sort of Bring 2/Pick Poision/Cut the Cake conglomerate that I just was not at all interested in building armies for so I didn't play. Especially for showcasing the C3V to people who may not know all the figures well (probably most people at this point) simple formats are best.

But anyways. I don't think it's horrible if C3V isn't included at Gencon official events. I think in order to have it fairly included in future events a vote would have to be taken of active Gencon participants, not simply a few people online advocating for it. Adding 6 years and counting of C3V releases majorly changes how competitive Heroscape would be played.

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  #55  
Old March 11th, 2019, 11:15 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

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The C3V events in the past did tend to be exotic formats. I know the very last year of it was some sort of Bring 2/Pick Poision/Cut the Cake conglomerate that I just was not at all interested in building armies for so I didn't play. Especially for showcasing the C3V to people who may not know all the figures well (probably most people at this point) simple formats are best.

But anyways. I don't think it's horrible if C3V isn't included at Gencon official events. I think in order to have it fairly included in future events a vote would have to be taken of active Gencon participants, not simply a few people online advocating for it. Adding 6 years and counting of C3V releases majorly changes how competitive Heroscape would be played.
I agree 100% with this assessment, both of what the future would look like, and of what might have discouraged some open play participation in the past.

If a C3V Open Play event goes well this year, I imagine that we'd have a good case to make for getting one or two smaller official events next year. That's what I hope to see. I don't think it's likely, nor do I think it would be wise, for the doors to get thrown wide for all of GenCon Heroscape in 2020, no matter what happens in 2019.

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  #56  
Old March 12th, 2019, 05:19 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

On the map discussion:

I respect the BoV (and the similar idea and efforts behind the ARV, although I don't know it nearly as well) but not all great maps come from it, and not all maps that are in it are great (cough Turret Rocks cough). A lot of the old ones really don't hold up well when applying the caliber of tournament-balance of today. And, it's officially dead in my eyes; there hasn't been a map added to it in 5 years and discussion has ceased. Still has great maps and it had a good run for sure. I believe the ARV is an effort to try to revamp it, but it definitely does things differently (almost champions maps that go slightly outside the traditional BoV rules/guidelines).

But I just don't like the mindset of, "if you're going to construct a map pool for a tournament or play the game competitively, you need to choose within the BoV/ARV" because it's unnecessarily limiting yourself and far from true to have a good tournament/game. Like I said, BoV has many great maps, but not all of them are great, and certainly not all great maps are in the BoV (and I guess echo this with ARV).

(One example I can think of is Common Ground by Gamebear. I think that map is an amazing map (competing for best 1 RotV map I think), and it wasn't accepted into the BoV, though GenCon still used it many years (and rightfully so, it's a great map). Definitely a map that should not be dismissed.)

And no I'm not trying to self-promote my map thread since it's relatively new, there's a ton of great maps you need to dig a bit for. I guess my point is that you should not dismiss a map because it's not BoV and you should not praise a map because it is BoV, though BoV does typically have quality maps.

There are quite a few unsung or overlooked map makers that aren't nearly discussed as much as Dignan, Flash, Typhon, etc. (those are great map makers too don't get me wrong). Some of which haven't made maps in a long time but have maps that are still very relevant. I posted this in another thread, but here are several map makers/threads that I think have plenty of quality maps that often go overlooked and have little discussion over:

-Panopticon
-tannergx
-LongHeroscaper
-Killometer
-Rednax
-Darkmage7a
-R˙chean
-dok
-nyys (his map thread doesn't have pictures anymore though, so it's hard to navigate through)

There's probably a few more out there but I'd have to search for a while in the cartographers thread.

All in all I'm happy with the way the maps are chosen and map pools are constructed for GenCon throughout the years. There's only been a handful of maps I thought were unfit. Keep up the good work and diversity

PS - i'm trying hard to make it to GenCon this year
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  #57  
Old March 14th, 2019, 05:31 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2019

C3V/SoV -- to me the problem is most people do not have access to these units. So it is really only for people who have them, and not everyone, cause I have none of them, so could only field official stuff when it comes down to it.
Now if you want to supply a ton of them, that could be a game changer. I bring all my HS stuff and let anyone use them and make armies for the learn and play, and for people who need one or 2 things for their army.

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