The Book of Hulk (Avengers)

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm down with that. Doesn't place markers, but synergizes with them.

[MrNobody]

Honestly if his cost is still going to be driven by Avengers teams, why not just make it an Avenger Marker? I’d rather see him be an Avenger or not, not just a weird halfway point where I’m going to want to draft him with the Avengers 75% of the time but he doesn’t hand out a marker.

[IAmBatman]

Not sure it really matters for army building purposes. This version lets you build him into Avenger builds very well and also use him outside of them. It's a win/win. Let's not get bogged down in persnickety details. johnny's compromise gets the different sides enough of what each of us want.

[MrNobody]

I mean...not really? I liked the Avengers version because Hulk could bring an extra marker to smaller Avengers builds, YK liked the Rival version cause it didn’t raise his cost based off drafting him with the Avengers. This captures neither of those elements. I guess I feel like we had a choice between a red truck and a blue car, and we just painted the car *red. I’d much rather just pick one, even if it means I get my second pick.

[IAmBatman]

Well I wanted a Hulk that worked well with the Avengers and encouraged you to put him in Avenger builds, so I guess I wanted a car that was painted blue.

[tcglkn]

I like johnny’s latest stab at it.

[MrNobody]

But that’s exactly my point. In a small Avengers army, him bringing a Marker is adding a ton to the build. If I want to bring him with Wasp or Captain Falcon as additional turn efficiency, that extra marker is exciting and useful. With Wasp, it straight-up doubles the option both of them have to do their thing. It provides something vital, fun, and IMO exciting to an Avengers build that this middle-of-the-road option loses out on.

Idk, I’m starting to want to just go with the Rival option. I know you disagree, but I really don’t want “You’re not getting his full potential unless you draft him with an Avenger but he’s not really Avengers Hulk cause reasons.” Johnny makes a compelling argument that Hulk isn’t as true of an Avengers as everyone else, so why not just lean into the generalist thing instead of making his “full” value tied to Avengers?

Plus, the Rival version still leaves the door open for someone to do a full Avengers Hulk if they wanted. The middle ground take kind of invalidates that a bit.

[japes]

What small avenger build are you talking about because your Wasp example would be not a great build anyway. Hulk is a bruiser. His job in the Avengers is to use his strength to hit things hard. No other Avengers figures use the X do they. If so he's going to fit nicely as an extra turn each round just putting the X on him.


What if there was a different compromise...a compromise of compromises.

He doesn't give out markers but he can choose his rival and his power works with his rival or a figure with an Avengers marker. Then in your Wasp example she can just be his rival.

We've brainstormed other figures that reference Avengers markers without giving any out. I know at least one Fury draft referenced Agents and Avengers markers as a unifying piece.

EDIT: Sorry misread Johnnys suggestion...just go with his.

[japes]

I'm not sure what your argument can be against Johnny's latest. A rival that has to inflict a wound..or a figure with an avenger marker regardless of wounds...he will play much better in an avenger build than separated.

[MrNobody]

I mean, I’ve spent the last page arguing why I don’t like Johnny’s version. It makes him practically an Avengers version without actually having him work the way any other Avengers character works...for reasons? It’s not best of both worlds to me, it’s worst of both.

Both Wasp and Captain Falcon provide turn efficiency but are fairly fragile. Hulk would add markers but also would provide a nice backup for when the leader falls. Tony uses the X so he’s not a perfect pick but is a usable one.

[japes]

Sam give one to Wasp and one to Hulk, Wasp gives one to Sam...they are all covered.

[MrNobody]

Copying over something I said on Discord;

It seems like maybe a big part of the divide here is why we play Avengers designs; I like them because making armies is one of the most fun parts of the game for me, and I like the way that their unique marker system adds a sort of puzzle to army building. It’s fun to me to try to figure out “Okay, if Avenger 1 brings X markers, and Avenger 2 brings Y markers, and I have Z points remaining, what’s the optimal strategy to build the rest of my army around?” It’s satisfying to get the right group of figures at the right pricepoint so that everyone gets a marker.

And the middle ground option loses that while also making it so that every time I draft him without Cap or whatever I feel like I’m not getting full value.

Idk, maybe I just want something different from Avengers markers than everyone else does. But that’s the charm to me. If you lose that army building aspect, it just makes more sense for them to be generalist heroes IMO.