C3V/C3G for AotP

[Tiranx]

I am very much a side liner when it comes to this forum. I love to support, play test, and brainstorm, but am not the type to start things. However, I really see a need for a C3Vish group for AotP.

How did the C3V, C3G, HoSS, etc. get started? It seems like we need representation for this game to actually be able to officially encorperate it into "official" Heroscape. I would love to attend a tournament where there was 'scape vs. HoSS vs. SoV vs. C3G vs. AotP.

I have already seen several people on this forum give great ideas on how to merge the two. If we took some of the more vocal ones and made them into the decision making engine for AotP, we could accomplish a lot more.

So, what is it going to take to make the P.O.S. Planeswalkers of 'Scape (PoS) happen?

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Tiranx

I am very much a side liner when it comes to this forum. I love to support, play test, and brainstorm, but am not the type to start things. However, I really see a need for a C3Vish group for AotP.

How did the C3V, C3G, HoSS, etc. get started? It seems like we need representation for this game to actually be able to officially encorperate it into "official" Heroscape. I would love to attend a tournament where there was 'scape vs. HoSS vs. SoV vs. C3G vs. AotP.

I have already seen several people on this forum give great ideas on how to merge the two. If we took some of the more vocal ones and made them into the decision making engine for AotP, we could accomplish a lot more.
So, what is it going to take to make the P.O.S. Planeswalkers of 'Scape (PoS) happen?

I thought that generally POS just happens.

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by TREX

I thought that generally POS just happens.

Well, you see as you get older, some things start to change .

[caps]

Originally Posted by Tiranx

I am very much a side liner when it comes to this forum. I love to support, play test, and brainstorm, but am not the type to start things. However, I really see a need for a C3Vish group for AotP.

Where/Why/How do you see such a need? I don't see the need for one as long as AotP is still publishing new pieces. There are people filling in missing spells and figures with customs on the AotP boards, though.

[TREX]

@capsocrates , I agree here, if the company making the product is still in full swing, I don't see the need to make additional adjustments.

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Where/Why/How do you see such a need? I don't see the need for one as long as AotP is still publishing new pieces. There are people filling in missing spells and figures with customs on the AotP boards, though.

Does that mean that you are of the mind that AotP is balanced compared compared to Heroscape? I personally feel that it is and know that I am in the minority. I would like to see PoS to be the group that melded the existing units and cards into Heroscape. In a way that would make them tournament viable. Custom units and cards would not be touched while the game is in production.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Tiranx

Does that mean that you are of the mind that AotP is balanced compared compared to Heroscape? I personally feel that it is and know that I am in the minority. I would like to see PoS to be the group that melded the existing units and cards into Heroscape. In a way that would make them tournament viable. Custom units and cards would not be touched while the game is in production.

I think they are balanced. I think they change the metagame in ways most Heroscape players won't like. Stingers, 4th Mass, Knights of Weston, etc. can still beat them. The problem is that most players have reached a point where they don't count on running into armies that powerful anymore. I think most tourney-goers these days play C to B ranked armies and typically do reasonably well with them. AotP means they can't have that expectation anymore.

I hope there are some minor tweaks that can be made to make the difference less drastic.

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I think they are balanced. I think they change the metagame in ways most Heroscape players won't like. Stingers, 4th Mass, Knights of Weston, etc. can still beat them. The problem is that most players have reached a point where they don't count on running into armies that powerful anymore. I think most tourney-goers these days play C to B ranked armies and typically do reasonably well with them. AotP means they can't have that expectation anymore.

I hope there are some minor tweaks that can be made to make the difference less drastic.

I agree 100%. Summoning alone messed with the meta game. I'm just not sure what mini tweaks coulda be done. My best guess at this point is to limit the summoning area to three spaces and maybe limit the number of spells playable or hand size.

[caps]

Decreased summoning range (and decreased summoned figures or cards per turn) is an option. A limitation to summoning that applies in early rounds (first 3-6 turns?) but not in the later rounds is another option. I think the simplest tweak to start would be to have the starting spell hand be empty.

The @chas solution (which appears to work well) is to require each player to have a Planeswalker and increase the point limit in kind. That is an option that would require no changes to AotP but would have a big effect on HS players. Chas also plays where HS figures are immune to sorceries (rather than just enchantments, which is how I have tried it so far).

Another idea I have had is simply change the map pool to feature mixed start zones (see A Stone's Throw or the two latest additions to my own map thread). Or play Heat of Battle.

All these changes are built on the assumption that the thing that makes AotP armies "too good" is rapid board control and auto wound abilities (primarily via spells).

I'm not sure any of these address the Eldrazi Ruiner and Avacyn, which are the two most troubling figures for HS armies, in my opinion.

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Decreased summoning range (and decreased summoned figures or cards per turn) is an option. A limitation to summoning that applies in early rounds (first 3-6 turns?) but not in the later rounds is another option. I think the simplest tweak to start would be to have the starting spell hand be empty.

The @chas solution (which appears to work well) is to require each player to have a Planeswalker and increase the point limit in kind. That is an option that would require no changes to AotP but would have a big effect on HS players. Chas also plays where HS figures are immune to sorceries (rather than just enchantments, which is how I have tried it so far).

Another idea I have had is simply change the map pool to feature mixed start zones (see A Stone's Throw or the two latest additions to my own map thread). Or play Heat of Battle.

All these changes are built on the assumption that the thing that makes AotP armies "too good" is rapid board control and auto wound abilities (primarily via spells).

I'm not sure any of these address the Eldrazi Ruiner and Avacyn, which are the two most troubling figures for HS armies, in my opinion.

I am going to have to try the starting-spell-hand-empty approach. I just bought Innistrad, so I am not super familiar with Avacyn. I am very familiar with the Eldrazi Ruiner and don't see him as a deal breaker. His adjacency ability is troubling, but it is troubling to your own figures as well.

I very much agree with the board control and auto wounds being the strength and advantage of AotP armies.

[caps]

You should give Sorin + Avacyn + Ruiner a try with a healing-heavy deck and maybe a few attack buffs.

[TheTravelingScaper]

well i may not be the guy to go willy nilly suggesting ideas but i do think it is a little early to make P.O.S. If anything at the current time we could ask a few admins or really experienced c3v creators for figure concepts (step 1 ) then go through and revise and change things(step 2 ) and find some one on heroscapers who is currently in involvement with the AOTP project and they should go over the design phase.(step 3) it sounds kind of silly. But hey think about it we bought heroscape for 6 long years and we STILL make custom units, it would be nice to see input from a knowledgeable and die-hard fanbase/community