The Book of Fire Demons

[japes]

@A3n was there a specific reason we didn't grey the wings in hitzone for this card. All the other winged figures I've found have the wings as un-targetable.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by japes

@A3n was there a specific reason we didn't grey the wings in hitzone for this card. All the other winged figures I've found have the wings as un-targetable.

Probably a brainfart!

I will upload the file later for you to update.

[IAmBatman]

I would like to request that we update FIRE AND BRIMSTONE to the following so that we avoid a game starting "Spire" strategy that restricts our design options going forward.

It's a fairly easy fix that falls within the intent and costing of the design, IMO as the LD.

FIRE AND BRIMSTONE
At the start of the game, before rolling for initiative, you may choose up to 4 empty spaces on the battlefield and place a single-hex lava field tile on each of the chosen spaces as long as the lava field tile fits normally onto that chosen space.

@Arkham @Lord Pyre @japes @tcglkn @Lazy Orang @johnny139 @Karat

[Lazy Orang]

Nay

That's a significant change from design intent (I've read the thread before and recall it being mentioned and okayed in the fairly early stages) that would require retesting and a likely lower points cost, and no competitive issues have emerged from its misuse. That's not a rule patch - that's straight-up reevaluation.


Being careful about future designs is one thing, but that is changing how this design is likely to play.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Nay

That's a significant change from design intent

100% inaccurate. I just reread the thread myself to see if I was crazy, and I'm not. As the LD, I can speak with confidence about the intent of the design and having read through the thread again, I see zero evidence of what you're suggesting here.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

(I've read the thread before and recall it being mentioned and okayed in the fairly early stages)

In the early stages we were still debating between going with molten lava or lava field, so that's absolutely not true. Perhaps you're referring to Tornado's idea in 2015 to use these guys to make a spire? I'll note that's when my activity was winding down (so I wasn't really on guard for competitive issues) and that, more importantly, it was about two years after the LD wrapped.

So not seeing anything that supports your "fairly early stages" claim.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

that would require retesting and a likely lower points cost, and no competitive issues have emerged from its misuse. That's not a rule patch - that's straight-up reevaluation.

I can find no evidence that it was tested or costed this way. I know I did not test it that way or base my evaluation of its cost on it, and I'm the one who came up with their initial cost and proposed their cost going into Final Editing.

No offense, but you're presenting no evidence for your claims here and, despite your confidence in them, I believe them to be completely wrong.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

100% inaccurate. I just reread the thread myself to see if I was crazy, and I'm not. As the LD, I can speak with confidence about the intent of the design and having read through the thread again, I see zero evidence of what you're suggesting here.

In the early stages we were still debating between going with molten lava or lava field, so that's absolutely not true. Perhaps you're referring to Tornado's idea in 2015 to use these guys to make a spire? I'll note that's when my activity was winding down (so I wasn't really on guard for competitive issues) and that, more importantly, it was about two years after the LD wrapped.

So not seeing anything that supports your "fairly early stages" claim.

I can find no evidence that it was tested or costed this way. I know I did not test it that way or base my evaluation of its cost on it, and I'm the one who came up with their initial cost and proposed their cost going into Final Editing.

No offense, but you're presenting no evidence for your claims here and, despite your confidence in them, I believe them to be completely wrong.

Apologies. I genuinely misremembered in that case. Perhaps you're right that I was remembering an entirely different conversation. I could have sworn there was a discussion like this in this thread.

[IAmBatman]

It's only ten pages. Feel free to shift through and see if you can find anything. I could not. I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong, if you can do so.

[Lord Pyre]

Yea

I’ve never played them that way, and don’t recall that ever being the intent when they were first designed.

[johnny139]

Yea

Makes sense to align it with intent, even if it is a nerf.

[tcglkn]

Yea

[Karat]

Not sure that really covers it. It effectively does the same thing right now. You choose a space on the battlefield and place a lavafield tile. Them you choose a space on the battlefield, the 1st lavafield tile is now on the battlefield and therefore eligible. I think you need to specify that these lavafield tiles are ineligible to have a lavafield tile placed on them.

[MrNobody]

I imagine you'd have to select the 4 spaces simultaneously, then place the tiles.