The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

[Yodaking]

So then the rules need to be amended to refer to those figures in cars as figure in play rather than figures you control right?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by quozl

Thanks! I'm on the job.

Here's the vehicle rule:

And here's Crowd Movement:

So to use Crowd Movement, you have to control all citizens that move. If they are inside a vehicle, you do not control them. Notice that the vehicle rules themselves contradict this by saying "you control occupying a vehicle". That's actually impossible!

Ah, gotcha, so I can’t activate both the car and Crowd Movement on the same Order Marker because both are essentially instead of moving normally.

OK that invalidates my first test (I will retest) and makes me think I would probably never draft the car and civilians together, due to the importance of crowd movement to them.

So with the rules is it instead of moving normally with just that figure or instead of moving normally with the whole squad?

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

So with the rules is it instead of moving normally with just that figure or instead of moving normally with the whole squad?

I took it as the former, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure I did my due diligence and looked at the old Sports Car/Mole Machine tests to see if it came up (or whether it was addressed in the design threads).

Definitely worth clarifying either way, while we're tinkering around with the rules.

[IAmBatman]

I think it is the former too and what’s happening here is that Crowd Movement is the latter. So you could drive the car with a Civvie and move three other figures, but couldn’t use Crowd Movement for the full 8.

[Yodaking]

Might be too late now, but I kind of feel only heroes should be jumping into the cars and driving around. It's not that a common street thug can't drive, it's more of a mechanical issue where I wouldn't want to see a 3-4 figure squad driving around in 3-4 different vehicles all on the same turn, so the theme would be that squad figures just don't take the individual initiative to jump into a vehicle while a hero does have individual initiative.

[IAmBatman]

Well we could solve that by making it instead of moving normally with the whole card, I guess. I’ll need a decided upon direction for that before I can do any more squad testing.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I think it is the former too and what’s happening here is that Crowd Movement is the latter. So you could drive the car with a Civvie and move three other figures, but couldn’t use Crowd Movement for the full 8.

This is what I am assuming to be the case (and the intent).

[IAmBatman]

Yep. And I think that would’ve made my test much closer. Do we want to forge ahead as is or nerf squads any by making it instead of moving normally for the whole card?

[quozl]

I don't see a reason to nerf squads yet.

[Yodaking]

If we create tanks or helicopter gunships that provide a SA option in the future, then we should be sure to require at least 2 figures in the vehicle to use the SA then. One driver, one gunner. That will at least keep the 4 figure common or unique squad limited to only driving and shooting with 2 tanks or helicopters per OM instead of 4.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds good. The special power nullification already cuts out abuses by turn bonding heroes.

[IAmBatman]

Even with the change, the Civilians really like a Sports Car to drive around. I did, notably, go 6/7 on the 50/50 Hit and Run roll, so that affected these tests, but I also improved my win margin from the prior test did to the power of an unwounded, never activated Huntress.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: SPORTS CAR

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Civilians (x4), Huntress, Sports Car (150) (500) vs Batman (200), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100), Green Arrow (150) Atom (50) (500)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Bat-Family. Batman advances, carrying Atom, with Robin in his wake, but too far away to target any foes.

Crowd movement sends six Civvies forward to the streets and two into the Sports Car.

Green Arrow sends an arrow with such skill that the other Civvies don’t even notice one in their number being KOed, so no panic arises.

Civvies advance en masse again (those in the car just waiting) and two attack Atom, but failing the attempt.

Batman take out two Civvies with his Batarangs, then Robin takes out a third, which incites a panic and moves two Civvies forward.

Civvies advance en masse again, two attacking Atom and one attacking Batman. But they cannot score any wounds.

Round 2: Initiative Gothamites. The Sports Car drives up and hits Atom for one wound. The other three Civvies that attack manage to KO Atom.

Batman KOs two more Civvies with his Batarangs, then Robin KOs a third, inciting panic.

The Sports Car hits Batman for a wound then another Civvie wounds Batman again.

Green Arrow advances and lets loose an exploding arrow, but can’t catch any of his three Civilian targets.

The Sports Car hits Batman for a third wound, then backs up adjacent to Green Arrow, and let’s the passenger out. The other three Civvies that can move advance towards Batman and Robin. Four Civvies attack, but fail to wound Green Arrow or Batman.

Green Arrow dodges a potential swipe, then his explosive arrow takes out two of three Civvies.

Round 3: Initiative Bat Family. Batman can’t hit a single target with his Batarangs. Robin can’t hit either, but does incite a panic.

Three Civvies move around and the fourth mows Batman down with the car. Four attacking Civvies can’t hit Green Arrow or Robin.

Green Arrow cold cocks a Civvie, inciting panic in two others near him.

The Civvies go, with the Car missing a target for the first time, failing to hit Robin. Civvies can’t hit Green Arrow, but get two wounds on Robin.

Green Arrow opts to punch the hood of the car and puts one wound on it.

The Car drives back and KOs Robin, then four other Civvies (two were already there) surround Green Arrow and fail to hit him.

Round 4: Initiative Civvies. The Car hits and runs Green Arrow, who is hopelessly locked in engagement with Civvies. In four attacks, they manage to punch him for two wounds, bringing Green Arrow down to one life.

Green Arrow uses an explosive Arrow to KO three Civvies, but it also takes him out.

Unit Summary: Hit and Run is pretty effective against fairly low life Heroes with tons of Civilians to keep the Heroes engaged and prevent them from targeting the car. With the Crowd Movement, it was pretty easy to keep a Civvie driving around in the car most turns without giving up any efficiency from the squaddies.

• Transportation: This was a minor aspect but it did move one Civvie up to engage Green Arrow. Being able to carry two at a time can help squads maximize hit and run, because they can tie up a Hero with engagement and get a 50% chance at a wound, then move away to avoid retribution.
• HIT AND RUN 11: 1 Wound on Robin, 1 Wound on Green Arrow (would have been two if he hadn’t taken himself out first), 1 Wound on Atom, 3 Wounds on Green Arrow.
• Damage Taken/Damage Given to Passengers: 1 Wound on the Car, no passengers harmed.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Three Civilians, Full Life Huntress, and the Car with one Wound win.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Human Torch (225), Sports Car (150), Thing (325) (700) vs Black Canary (190), Oracle (110), Green Arrow (150), Red Arrow (150), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100) (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Fantastic Two. Thing piles into the Car.

Black Canary and Robin make their way out to the streets.

Human Torch gets in the Car.

Green Arrow moves up and plinks the Car for a wound.

Human Torch drives out, but can’t hit Robin. Human Torch pops out of the car and blasts Black Canary for two wounds.

The combined might of Black Canary, Cupid’s Arrow, and Robin with the Vigilante Sidekick bonus cannot wound the Car.

Round 2: Initiative Birds of Prey. Black Canary’s Fists of Fury pummel the Car into bits, destroying it, but Thing tumbles out next to Robin instead of her to avoid taking the last hit. This also nullifies Cupid’s Arrow and Robin’s bonus for Vigilante Sidekick. Robin breaks his hand on Thing thanks to Rock Wall Defense, taking one wound.

Human Torch flies to height but can’t hit Black Canary.

Black Canary follows the Secret Attack Plan and hits Thing for a wound. Cupid’s Arrow can’t hit Thing, but it does distract the Adventurer while Robin pulls a Bat-Bomb from his utility belt and smacks Thing for three wounds.

Thing dodges a swipe from Robin and KOs Black Canary. Oracle installs her contingency plan and Green Arrow takes over.

Green Arrow takes height on Thing and he and Red Arrow rain down on Thing, but only score one wound. Thing is down to one Life.

Thing moves to even height with Green Arrow and smacks him for two wounds.

Round 3: Initiative Fan Two. Thing KOs Green Arrow. Oracle’s Contingency Plan moves his Order Marker to Red Arrow.

Robin runs over and ties down Thing, then KO’s him.

Human Torch has his shot at Red Arrow blocked.

Red Arrow follows the Secret Attack Plan to put a wound on Human Torch, then Furious Assault for three more attacks and the remaining four Life on Human Torch.
Unit Summary: The Car was a good meat shield that helped get its team into the action fast, but Hit and Run was a bust and the Fan Two didn’t have the fire power to overcome a few poor rolls and keep up with the Archer/Vigilante army.

• Transportation: Moved Thing and Human Torch up the map safely.
• HIT AND RUN 11: 0-1 for no damage.
• Damage Taken/Damage Given to Passengers: KOed in Round 2 by Black Canary. No damage done to passengers.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Oracle and Red Arrow with Full Life and Robin with 1 Wound win.

___________________________________________________________

AFTER CHANGE TO SQUAD MOVEMENT

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Civilians (x4), Huntress, Sports Car (150) (500) vs Batman (200), Robin (Dick Grayson) (100), Green Arrow (150) Atom (50) (500)

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: Initiative Gothamites. Seven Civvies advance. One climbs into the Sports Car.

Batman, Atom, and Robin advance.

Eight Civvies advance, one engaging Batman, but failing to hit him.

Batman grapples away and picks off two Civvies with his batarangs. Robin engages three Civvies, swings at one, who dodges, and two others panic and run to help.

Eight Civvies advance, one attacking Batman and two attacking Robin (he flips away from the fourth attacker). They don’t get any hits.

Batman KOs two Civvies. Robin moves adjacent to Batman and takes out a third, causing two others to panic.


Round 2: Initiative Gothamites. The Sports Car drives up and hits Robin for a wound. The one Civvie in place to attack swings at Robin and catches him unaware, for a second wound.

Batman KOs three more Civvies with his Batarangs, then Robin attacks the Car, but can’t hit. Two Civvies panic, shuffling towards Batman.

The Sports Car KOs Robin, then pulls off and away. No Civvies are in position to attack.

Batman takes out two Civvies with his Batarangs.

Civvies swarm, moving five to surround Batman and Atom. Four of them attack, but they can’t wound the Heroes, and Evasive Strike finally takes a Civvie down.

Batman only KOs one of three Civvie targets with his Batarangs.

Round 3: Initiative Gothamites. The Sports Car hits Batman for a wound, then pulls off a couple spaces. The two Civvies engaged with Atom can’t hit him.

Batman takes down two of the last three Civvies walking the streets.

The Sports Car tries to hit Batman again, but Batman dodges. The last Civvie on the streets attacks Atom, but can’t hit.

Batman KOs the last Civvie, but can’t hit the car.

The Sports Car hits Batman for a second wound, then peels off towards its start zone.

Batman gives chase, and punches the Car for two wounds.

Round 4: Initiative Gothamites. Batman dodges oncoming traffic from the Sports Car.

Batman gives chase, destroys the Car, and the passenger inside is KOed.

Civvies lose their OM2 and OM3.

Batman rangs Huntress for a wound, then engages her, rolls all skulls, and KOs her.

Unit Summary: Civvies in the car feel a lot more like unique heroes, now. They don’t have nearly the efficiency when it comes to exploiting Hit and Run inside of their normal turn. They can still get in some attacks, but positioning to optimize those attacks is much, much harder. This would’ve been closer, but Huntress did nothing.

• Transportation:
• HIT AND RUN 11: 3 of 5 for 2 Wounds on Robin and 1 Wound on Batman.
• Damage Taken/Damage Given to Passengers: Destroyed in Round 4, passenger is KOed.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman with 2 Wounds, Atom with Full Life, and Green Arrow with Full Life.