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  #1  
Old August 4th, 2007, 09:46 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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Thinking About Star Wars

I think way too much about Star Wars. So here's a thread for others who do the same.

I did some thinking about Episode III recently, in which I realized that, "from a certain point of view," Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi and even murder of the younglings is perfectly in keeping with Yoda's teaching.

When Anakin goes to Yoda, worried about his ominous dreams of Padme's death, Yoda tells him, "Do not mourn those who go into the Force."

So if you think about it, Yoda and Obi-wan really shouldn't complain about all the Jedi Anakin killed: they've just gone into the Force, something that shouldn't be mourned.
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  #2  
Old August 4th, 2007, 09:57 PM
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"From a certain point of view," perhaps, but that point of view happens to be very dark, and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side (though it shouldn't've been a surprise) is mourn-worthy.

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  #3  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:33 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade
"From a certain point of view," perhaps, but that point of view happens to be very dark, and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side (though it shouldn't've been a surprise) is mourn-worthy.
Right. The point is not that Yoda and Obi-wan are wrong to criticize Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. It's that they were wrong to act as though his fears for Padme were silly. Just as they are wrong in Empire Strikes Back when they tell Luke to let Leia and Han be killed.

To me, this is part of the central theme in the six-movie arc: If you become so enamoured of your philosophy that you're willing to discard human lives, you're going to end up causing (or enabling) as much grief as someone who is outright evil.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Havokscry Havokscry is offline
 
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Princess Leia in the slave girl outfit is hot!!

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  #5  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Wytefang Wytefang is offline
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So, Jaques, what did you think of episodes 1-3 of Star Wars?
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  #6  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaques
To me, this is part of the central theme in the six-movie arc: If you become so enamoured of your philosophy that you're willing to discard human lives, you're going to end up causing (or enabling) as much grief as someone who is outright evil.
This is true, but IMHO from their point of view () they were training him for the greater good, to defeat Vader. If he got himself killed trying to save a few friends, the whole galaxy would suffer. Alternatively, they knew he wouldn't leave his friends to die just because it would put his own life at risk to try to save them. They gave him the best warning they could, and trusted in the Force to let Luke's loyalty and virtue carry him through.

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  #7  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:56 PM
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I was floating in the pool just 30 minutes ago, humming to myself, listening to how the water effected the sound, when I decided the Star Wars theme would be a good piece to try out.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 10:58 PM
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But then again his turning was foretold anyway so that shouldn't be mourn worthy.
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  #9  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:59 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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I sense that I'm being baited here, but I'll answer anyway.

I love Star Wars so much that for each one of the prequel movies, I bought two advance tickets: one for the opening midnight show, and one for a matinee the next day.

I fully expected Episode I to be the best movie of the year, if not ever. I'd been working in a movie theater in the runup to the film, and the trailer for Ep. I was one of the most exciting pieces of filmmaking I had ever seen.

I went to the midnight show hoping for something amazing -- and ended up thinking that it sucked.

But I'd already bought my matinee ticket for the next day, and some friends of mine were going to that showing anyway, so I went with them, and saw a lot of things that I'd missed the first time. I ended up seeing the movie five or six times in the theater.

Somewhat of the same thing happened with Ep. III. From the opening scene on, I found myself in disbelief at how lame it was, on first viewing. But my next-day viewing revealed a lot of undertones that I found compelling.

Possibly because my Episode II expectations were not as high as those for either I or III, I loved "Attack of the Clones" start-to-finish. (Aside from a few wince-worthy moments of totally clunked dialogue.)

Overall, there are two elements that make the prequel trilogy worthwhile, in my view. One is that they're among the most visually well-conceived films of all time.

But the other, more important point is that they have immense depths to them that belie the often-clumsy surface that Lucas has saddled them with.

So yes, I liked them better than I liked the LotR movies. (That is what you were asking, wasn't it? Oh, and notice that I did not say, "Yes, I thought they were better films than the LotR movies.")
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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaques

To me, this is part of the central theme in the six-movie arc: If you become so enamoured of your philosophy that you're willing to discard human lives, you're going to end up causing (or enabling) as much grief as someone who is outright evil.
If this was the central theme of the sexology (heh... I'm using it) then I'm sure it was purely accidental. I think any philosophy Lucas was trying to convey could be summed up as such: *pew... pew peewww* and *vrrrrum, rrrrrrrrrr, vrm vrrrrrm*
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  #11  
Old August 4th, 2007, 11:17 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaques
To me, this is part of the central theme in the six-movie arc: If you become so enamoured of your philosophy that you're willing to discard human lives, you're going to end up causing (or enabling) as much grief as someone who is outright evil.
This is true, but IMHO from their point of view () they were training him for the greater good, to defeat Vader. If he got himself killed trying to save a few friends, the whole galaxy would suffer. Alternatively, they knew he wouldn't leave his friends to die just because it would put his own life at risk to try to save them. They gave him the best warning they could, and trusted in the Force to let Luke's loyalty and virtue carry him through.
It's certainly a valid interpretation that Yoda and Ben are true heroes who, through simple bad luck, are not able themselves to defeat the Emperor and save the galaxy.

But I don't buy that interpretation myself. Obi-wan admits it in the final battle of Ep. III: he has failed Anakin. The Jedi brought their ruin on themselves by devolving into an overly cerebral philosophy that proved utterly insufficient to support Anaking emotionally.

The moment of triumph in RotJ comes when Luke throws down his lightsaber and refuses to kill Vader, or even to fight any further. None of the teachings Yoda or Ben gave him suggested such a course of action. Luke triumphs because he expresses something that Yoda and Obi-wan have repressed: love.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej
I was floating in the pool just 30 minutes ago, humming to myself, listening to how the water effected the sound, when I decided the Star Wars theme would be a good piece to try out.



You can't be serious...

I just came in from the pool. And I was doing the exact same thing.



Sorry, I just had to respond to that.

Guess who's back, back again? Chilli's back. Tell Skahen.
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