Placing Order Marker on "destroyed" figure's card

[SVD997]

My only reasoning with that one is the fact that the only stipulation on the card is that there is an "order marker on Sparticus". Most powers have a range (All figures within 2 spaces, etc.) That, and most other powers just don't work unless your figure is on the board.

Rÿchean: That still doesn't explain the original question.

I was just raising another point for discussion.

[Rÿchean]

Let's use Heavy Gruts as an example. Orc Champion Bonding doesn't say that Heavy Gruts have to be alive to bond with an Orc Champion first, but they do. You have to have at least one Heavy Grut alive on the board when you reveal your order marker in order to take a turn with your orc champion first.

Bonding

Examples:

Orc Champion Bonding, Human Gladiator Bonding, Ullar Warlord Bonding.

If I have a turn order marker on an Army Card with bonding, but every figure on the Army Card has been destroyed, can I still use the bonding power? No. If the every figure on the Army Card is destroyed, you cannot take that turn, and the bonding power would never activate.

So if Spartacus is dead at the beginning of the round, placing a marker on his card will not activate Gladiator Inspiration.

[Grungebob]

I look at figures like SuBakNa. When he's destroyed you no longer get the Hive Mind bonus, even though it doesn't say this on the card at all.

[SVD997]

Maybe this should be clarified in the official FAQ? I would never play like this, but I could see how a rules lawyer would argue their point. (We all know they love loopholes)

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by SVD997

Maybe this should be clarified in the official FAQ? I would never play like this, but I could see how a rules lawyer would argue their point. (We all know they love loopholes)

I really don't see this as "rules lawyering." There have been several valid situations presented where this would be a reasonable course of events under some cases:

• Not wanting to risk destroying wolves when they can't reach an enemy to attack
• Rechets that haven't been summoned, but may be before the round is over
• A long shot try for a sturla revive
• Marro squad that could be revived by the hive
• On Thanos hoping he will be rejected by death on an earlier turn in the round

I'm sure someone will probably come up with more.

Assuming that it is legal to put an order marker on a destroyed figures card, I don't see why a person wouldn't use this strategy if it fit the way the game was playing out.

Here is a quick example using the Hive and Marro Drudge (note in the image I used marrow warrior figures to represent the Marro Drudge). In this scenario all of your marro drudge are destroyed before the round begins. The following is the order marker and turn strategy you choose:

1. First order marker on Marro Hive - use it to rebirth a marro Drudge (figure next to the hive)
2. Second order marker on Marro Hive -- use it to take turn with drudge (tunnel to the space next to Syvarris). Attack Syvarris. Try re-birth and fail.
3. Third order marker on Drudge to attack Syvarris again (note you can't use the hive to activate the drudge since he isn't in clear sight due to the ruin wall)

[killercactus]

I think the answer is as simple as this:

General Rule - Characters that are destroyed / not yet placed on the map cannot take turns or use their Special Powers.

Some Special Powers override that General Rule (Warrior Armor Spirit, Rejected by Death, The Drop, etc.). Those powers still affect the game when the unit is destroyed, but only because they specifically override the General Rule.

Spartacus' power does not specifically override the General Rule. Therefore, it does not activate when an Order Marker is placed on him after he is destroyed, or if he is not placed on the map.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I think the answer is as simple as this:

General Rule - Characters that are destroyed / not yet placed on the map cannot take turns or use their Special Powers.

...

I agree with that -- the question is can they have an order marker placed on them (it won't activate anything unless they have been somehow brought back into the game before the turn). The FAQ does address this with Thanos and says he does get his turn if he is rejected by death before the turn, but it doesn't say you can start the round with a marker on a destroyed Thanos hoping for a rejected by death (I think the example is where he is destroyed on the first turn, rejected on the second, and the marker was for the third turn).

[Aldin]

I think it really is as simple as you can't place OMs on destroyed figs. Nothing in the rules allows it. It doesn't exclude it, but it doesn't exclude me yelling "Ninja Solar Wind!" and pouring beer all over the gameboard either.

~Aldin, simply

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

This question has come up before. If I recall, it is permissible to place order markers on destroyed army cards.

While freeflowing beer is to be commended in general, I don't think this situation is akin to that. With Sturla, Rechets, Thanos, the Hive, Anub. Wolves, etc., the option to put a order marker on a card seems valid (though risky). As long as there is a clear understanding that OMs on cards that are destroyed have no game effect of any kind (unless by some lucky rolls a figure on that card is revived), then I don't see a reason to limit placement. It's not limited in the rules (a simple, "on an active card" or "a card with units on the board" would have been easy to add--or some other note of clarification).

I know Grungebob is only giving him sense of things (above) and not offering a firm statement, but for now that statement makes the most sense to me.

[killercactus]

Aldin, I think the opposite, but I still think it's simple. I think you can place Order Markers on destroyed figures all you want, you just can't utilize special powers on those army cards or take turns with them. I think it's exactly the same as having your #3 OM on Nilfheim when he was killed earlier in the round.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by 1Mmirg

[Aldin]

*shrug*

I'd never complain about a 2, 3 or X marker on Thanos. I think the original poster's idea of trying to avoid rolling for his wolves is unfair to his opponent. It's silly.

~Aldin, playingly

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Aldin

*shrug*

I'd never complain about a 2, 3 or X marker on Thanos. I think the original poster's idea of trying to avoid rolling for his wolves is unfair to his opponent. It's silly.

~Aldin, playingly

*shrug*

If my opponent wants to give up a turn of moving his Wolves up because of a 1/20 chance that one might die, I'm all for that. If it were me, I'll take that turn and reposition my Wolves, in spite of that 5% chance.