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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #25  
Old August 26th, 2009, 01:26 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

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Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
1) Rat dominance in the meta-game
Quote:
Originally Posted by arp12 View Post
Great topic, killercactus. I find it amusing that you're seeking armies that benefit most from Raelin, while at the same time defeating her.

Melee units can be viable in the right setting, as we witnessed from GenCon. This makes me wonder about the Armoc Vipers' viability for tournaments. Only 3 members per squad hurts, but they're quick with solid stats. If there was another bonding option, they'd be even better, but it seems we'll have to wait a while for that.

This army looks good for 500 points:
120 Venoc Warlord
120 Raelin SotM
260 4x Armoc Vipers
500

Armocs and Mittens are your Bread and Butter; Raelin raises the Armocs to that crucial 4th defense die.
Remember, the first principle is the most crucial in building your melee army. As Matthias will attest, a rat screen will bring your steamroller to a grinding hault. You'll be chewing through rat after 10-point rat while your opponent hits you with ranged attacks. Instead of the defense boost from SotM Raelin, the Special "rat-killing" Attack of Kaemon Awa may be of more benefit.

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  #26  
Old August 26th, 2009, 02:09 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

True. I wonder if Raelin's Whirlwind would be any good against rats- probably not. I really like SotM Raelin in there though. Maybe it's best at higher point totals where you can fit in more rat-clearing(alternatively, you could wait for the meta-game to shift).

Here's some 600 pointers:

120 Venoc Warlord
120 Raelin SotM
195 3x Armocs
150 Major Q10
010 Isamu
595/14
Major Q10 leads as a solid 'reaver-clearing force.

120 Venoc Warlord
120 Raelin SotM
195 3x Armocs
080 2x Repulsors
060 Zetacron
010 Isamu
010 Otonashi
595/21
We're still not sure of the Repulsors as a rat killers, but hopefully they do well. Zetacron gets 7 move.

Alternatively you can sub in Johnny in the 500 point build, but he probably wouldn't get rid of enough Deathreavers.
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  #27  
Old August 26th, 2009, 02:15 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

I like SotM Raelin a lot with Repulsors / Snipers. They seem to spread out quite a bit because of Overload, and they have to be moved separately, so the Aura needs to cover a lot of ground. Also, the Repulsors function as their own Rat clearing crew (though I don't think they're too terribly good at it).

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  #28  
Old August 27th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

Well met!

Hybrids are best. Created a Wolf army for Jandar911, using them as a melee screen. Think expensive Deathreavers that don't scatter, but occasionally hit hard. If I had any, I'd use them as such.

150 2 x Anubians
150 Mimring
120 Kaemon
80 Raelin
500

David
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  #29  
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:35 AM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
Also, the Repulsors function as their own Rat clearing crew (though I don't think they're too terribly good at it).
I know we've been down this road a couple times already, but I still don't quite see why they're a bad rat-clearing crew. If you can get repulsor contact with three rats, then overload is statistically as effective as a queglix blast, and more effective than Kaemon Awa's quick strike. That doesn't seem like such a tall order to me, even if you start with only six repulsors.

(If you can get contact with four rats, you're in Nilfheim territory. If you can get contact with five rats, you're better than Braxas.)

I understand the frailty issues of the repulsors compared to, say, Kaemon Awa, but if you've got a non-disengaging melee army with less than 120 points left, six or more startzone hexes available, and no special attacks, I think the repulsors are a very good play.
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  #30  
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

I haven't tested it yet, so you could be right. I think my doubt comes from the fact that they have to actually engage the Rats to do this. Those other units you mentioned can do it from range.

If Repulsors are engaged to Rats, then they're in range of the shooters. But, if you're shooting at the rats from 5-7 spaces out, it's tougher for the shooters to reach, and they have to spend more OM's on the Rats to catch up.

All theory though - I don't have any playtesting evidence (yet).

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  #31  
Old October 21st, 2009, 07:01 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I understand the frailty issues of the repulsors compared to, say, Kaemon Awa, but if you've got a non-disengaging melee army with less than 120 points left, six or more startzone hexes available, and no special attacks, I think the repulsors are a very good play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
I haven't tested it yet, so you could be right. I think my doubt comes from the fact that they have to actually engage the Rats to do this. Those other units you mentioned can do it from range.
With you on that, but Braxas, Nilfheim, Q9, and Kaemon all cost 120+. I still think repulsorsx2 have a place as an 80 point filler for knights, minions, and maybe a few other melee builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
Tor-Kul-Na - 220
Marrden Nagrubs x3 - 310
Raelin - 390
Other Support (110) - 500
I came very close to playing this army (with Airborne Elite + Marcu to make 520) at Colorado NHSD. I was a little worried about getting shot up if the AE didn't show up on HoB maps, as well as on some of the longer maps in the pool. I guess you could say I chickened out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
Zombies

Ahhh.... the Zombies. One of the more underrated units in my opinion. When considering the 4 reasons the Orcs performed so well, the Zombies popped into my head as well. Lets take a look again:

1) Rats - the Zombies are one of the few melee squads afforded a Special Attack, which can prevent Scatter. Also, Deathreavers are Small and not Undead, making them vulnerable to Zombies Rise Again. Plus, if the Deathreavers tie down the Zombies, Horde Movement will allow them to move up reinforcements while still attacking the Rats. It actually seems like a good situation for the Zombies.
2) Smaller maps - that oncoming horde of Zombies looks a lot scarier when it starts closer to you.
3) Ignore Raelin's Aura - Zombie Onslaught is usually strong enough to pierce Raelin's Aura. If you can get into Onslaught position, the Zombies can just attack right through her.
4) Raelin makes sense - if there's any melee squad in the game that Raelin makes sense for, this is it. Horde Movement has Raelin written all over it. The slow Zombies can move 6 figures at a time and not very far - the perfect situation for Raelin to fly out and wait as the Zombies shamble into her aura. Then, once they reach the enemy, Raelin can help keep the engaged figures alive so that reinforcements can move up while the engaged Zombies attack. Plus, if Raelin is close enough to protect the engaged Zombies, any Zombies that Rise Again may very well also be in her Aura! Raelin is a must-draft alongside the Zombies. On small maps at 500 points, this army might be quite intimidating...

Raelin - 80
Zombies x7 - 500
Agreed with all your reasons, there. I actually did end up playing the zombies. However, the idea of hopping Raelin up and then just getting shot as the zombies shambled forward didn't strike my fancy. So, I dropped three squads of zombies for Q9 (+Marcu). This allowed me to fire away with Raelin-backed Q9 until my opponent came to me, at which point I could start eating brains without travelling too far.
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  #32  
Old October 21st, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

I personally have started to love


Romans Legionaries X3
Marcus
Raelin (Rotv)
10th Reg X2
Filler

Block with the Romans. Keep Raelin in the middle boosting everyones defense, use Marcus to boost attack were ever he is needed. When your Roman line is broken charge the 10th in for clean up.
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  #33  
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:34 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arp12
Melee units can be viable in the right setting, as we witnessed from GenCon. This makes me wonder about the Armoc Vipers' viability for tournaments. Only 3 members per squad hurts, but they're quick with solid stats. If there was another bonding option, they'd be even better, but it seems we'll have to wait a while for that.

This army looks good for 500 points:
120 Venoc Warlord
120 Raelin SotM
260 4x Armoc Vipers
500

Armocs and Mittens are your Bread and Butter; Raelin raises the Armocs to that crucial 4th defense die.
Remember, the first principle is the most crucial in building your melee army. As Matthias will attest, a rat screen will bring your steamroller to a grinding hault. You'll be chewing through rat after 10-point rat while your opponent hits you with ranged attacks. Instead of the defense boost from SotM Raelin, the Special "rat-killing" Attack of Kaemon Awa may be of more benefit.
Thinking about the Armoc Vipers, their need for a Rat clearing Hero, and the 5 at the end of their cost made me think of this:

Venoc Warlord - 120
Armoc Vipers x3 - 315
Nilfheim - 500

Very similar to the Gilbert/KoWx3/Nilfheim build and the Migol/ABFx3/Braxas builds we've been seeing. This one really resembles the Knight build as the Armocs are very fast and can move through water. I think the issue here though is that one less defense die on the Vipers, and one fewer figure per squad. The Knights just hold up so much better, and are almost as fast thanks to Gilbert. Plus, I feel like Mittens bonuses are just so wasted without some Scouts or Frenziers.

It'd be interesting to play, though. I think the Armocs are always going to be best served as a late game cleanup crew with Mittens. But hey, seeing as how they're Protectors, I think that's what the designers intended them to be.

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  #34  
Old November 3rd, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

While High Risk I have found the Wolves of Badru to be fairly effective. Their threat range is better than most turtling range armies. There special attack of 5 is usually good enough to get through a lot of defense. They are fast enough to close distance, and small enough to hide in alot of places.

I just wished they did not die if they failed their attack. If they failed and landed somewhere adjacent to the target then they would be alot more viable.

Army I used with them
10th x 2
Wolves x 2
190 point 'filler' of your choice. (I used sujoah and Zelrig so far)

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  #35  
Old November 3rd, 2009, 05:59 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

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Originally Posted by Toad Rocket View Post

Army I used with them
10th x 2
Wolves x 2
190 point 'filler' of your choice. (I used sujoah and Zelrig so far)
Did you do that because that is the pack they came in or some other reason? You did that because that is how they are packaged, didn't you!
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  #36  
Old November 3rd, 2009, 06:09 PM
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Re: Looking at "Other" Melee Armies, and Raelin Musings

Ahh yes, guilty as charged .

That day I got just got two packs and had to try out both units at the same time! It actually worked pretty well to my surprise.

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