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  #18025  
Old August 22nd, 2016, 09:45 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I feel like The Captain, Elsa Bloodstone, and Machine Man have uniquely "Nextwave" interpretations that have more or less supplanted their original characterizations.

Monica and Boom Boom are the two that are tougher to pin down... Monica has a long history with the Avengers, was tossed aside for a while, came back for Nextwave, and her modern incarnation has sort of absorbed both of those "sides" along with the general need for more strong black female characters and, boom, modern Monica. Boom Boom is the only one who's really shown up outside of the comics (being a Mutant and all that comes with that). So she's really the toughest to pin down, her Nextwave incarnation feels completely removed from the rest of her history.

Also The Captain needs a "Captain ☠☠☠☠" power that gives Valiant and Patriotic characters a boost against him.
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  #18026  
Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:25 PM
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Re: Public Design Post


Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
I feel like The Captain, Elsa Bloodstone, and Machine Man have uniquely "Nextwave" interpretations that have more or less supplanted their original characterizations.

Monica and Boom Boom are the two that are tougher to pin down... Monica has a long history with the Avengers, was tossed aside for a while, came back for Nextwave, and her modern incarnation has sort of absorbed both of those "sides" along with the general need for more strong black female characters and, boom, modern Monica. Boom Boom is the only one who's really shown up outside of the comics (being a Mutant and all that comes with that). So she's really the toughest to pin down, her Nextwave incarnation feels completely removed from the rest of her history.

Also The Captain needs a "Captain ☠☠☠☠" power that gives Valiant and Patriotic characters a boost against him.
This is all very well, but what about DEADMAN?



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  #18027  
Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:35 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

The Captain's original to Nextwave and Elsa may as well be, so there's really no conflict with them, yeah.

Machine Man hasn't totally been supplanted by the Nextwave incarnation. He was still written as Nextwave Machine Man when he was a supporting character in Ms. Marvel (Carol's book, not Kamala's). But he was also a recurring character in Jeff Parker's Hulk and nearly a co-lead in Red She-Hulk, and he was back to his original personality in those.

Either way, I like the idea of playing up the defiant/rebellious/defector angle for him as a way of hitting him in a single take. Works for every era of the character. Manufactured for war and goes on the run from the military, the whole Nextwave deal, turning against the Avengers and going AWOL to help Red She-Hulk.... dude does a lot of defecting.
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  #18028  
Old August 22nd, 2016, 10:49 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
I feel like The Captain, Elsa Bloodstone, and Machine Man have uniquely "Nextwave" interpretations that have more or less supplanted their original characterizations.
I'm glad to find someone who agrees that Nextwave was insane enough for a separate version of them.


Quote:
Monica and Boom Boom are the two that are tougher to pin down... Monica has a long history with the Avengers, was tossed aside for a while, came back for Nextwave, and her modern incarnation has sort of absorbed both of those "sides" along with the general need for more strong black female characters and, boom, modern Monica.
Yeah, she's probably been helped the most by her Nextwave appearances. She got to lead the Mighty Avengers for a while, and there's a good mini of her in her modern "Spectrum" costume from that time frame in the Age of Ultron OP set that's only 1.99 at coolstuffinc. That's probably the best timeframe to pull from for an Avengers version of her.

Quote:
Boom Boom is the only one who's really shown up outside of the comics (being a Mutant and all that comes with that). So she's really the toughest to pin down, her Nextwave incarnation feels completely removed from the rest of her history.
Tabitha (who I'm not calling Boom Boom because she's so different from the Boom Boom version, that you can barely tell that she's the same person) is a completely vapid white-girl stereotype. If any deserves a separate Nextwave version, then if it isn't Aaron, it's her.

Quote:
Also The Captain needs a "Captain ☠☠☠☠" power that gives Valiant and Patriotic characters a boost against him.
I mean, it was kind of just a 1 page flashback. Plus it might not even be canon, since the entire events of the series where basically implied to be drug induced fake memories. So.... maybe. I'll see if I can come up with something clever for it.

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  #18029  
Old August 23rd, 2016, 05:47 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Okay, here's my daft for Symbiote Spidey.



The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Sinister set.
Its model number and name are #058-60 / Spider-Man.


Name - Spider-Man
Secret Identity -Peter Parker


Species - Symbiote
Uniqueness - Unique Hero
Class - Vigilante
Personality - Conflicted
Size/Height Medium 5


5 Life
Move 6
Range 2
Attack 6
Defence 4


Symbiotic-Senses 12

If Spider-Man is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, Spider-Man takes no damage and may immediately use his Tendril Swing 3 special power.


Tendril Swing 3

Instead of his normal move, Spider-Man may use his Tendril Swing. Tendril Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Spider-Man’s Tendril Swing movement, ignore elevations. Spider-Man may swing over water without stopping, swing over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Spider-Man may not Tendril Swing more than 40 levels up or down in a single Tendril Swing. When Spider-Man uses Tendril Swing, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. After using Tendril Swing 3, you may use it one additional time.

Symbiote Rage

After attacking with Spider-Man’s normal attack, if Spider-Man inflicted at least one wound, you may attack again with Spider-Man’s normal attack. You may continue attacking with Spider-Man’s normal attack until you do not inflict any wounds. Spider-Man cannot attack more than 3 times in a single turn. After taking a turn with Spider-Man, remove one Order Marker from this Army Card for each figure Spider-Man destroyed this turn that was not a Destructible Object, Android, Construct or Undead.

Superstrength


Design Notes

Spoiler Alert!


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  #18030  
Old August 23rd, 2016, 07:08 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Symbiote Rage is clever. I'd drop him down to melee range if you're doing that (or a version of it), but it's definitely a cool idea.

Really not liking him as a vigilante. Besides not liking him in that synergy web, I don't think it's really representative. In the original comics, the symbiote never actually influenced his behavior at all. In other media where they do the "more reckless/impulsive/angry" direction, it's usually a relatively subtle thing. He starts getting show-offy, he goes a little overboard with the subduing criminals, he has weird dance sequences at clubs, and so on. It's not like his whole MO changes or anything. I'd go for a Brash/Angry/Reckless personality and stick with Crime Fighter (or maybe Fighter?).
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  #18031  
Old August 23rd, 2016, 10:25 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Tabitha (who I'm not calling Boom Boom because she's so different from the Boom Boom version, that you can barely tell that she's the same person) is a completely vapid white-girl stereotype. If any deserves a separate Nextwave version, then if it isn't Aaron, it's her.
In personality, sure, but not in powers, and you don't have her personality strongly represented on the write-up. The Klepto power is the only thing you have for that, and I'd argue against that power even on a Nextwave-specific version, because there's only one reference to her stealing stuff in Nextwave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
I mean, it was kind of just a 1 page flashback. Plus it might not even be canon, since the entire events of the series where basically implied to be drug induced fake memories. So.... maybe. I'll see if I can come up with something clever for it.
Beyonders messing with them is the official retcon, actually. But isn't that just another good argument for why not to do Nextwave versions?

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  #18032  
Old August 26th, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Symbiote Rage is clever. I'd drop him down to melee range if you're doing that (or a version of it), but it's definitely a cool idea.

Really not liking him as a vigilante. Besides not liking him in that synergy web, I don't think it's really representative. In the original comics, the symbiote never actually influenced his behavior at all. In other media where they do the "more reckless/impulsive/angry" direction, it's usually a relatively subtle thing. He starts getting show-offy, he goes a little overboard with the subduing criminals, he has weird dance sequences at clubs, and so on. It's not like his whole MO changes or anything. I'd go for a Brash/Angry/Reckless personality and stick with Crime Fighter (or maybe Fighter?).
I definitely see what you mean when it comes to range and the Rage power - what I think I'll do instead of dropping his range (which I'd like to keep at 2 for parity with Venom) is make it some that SR only works in melee.
I can see your point on Vigilante - it seemed right to me, but I'm far from attached to it. That being said, I'm really not feeling Fighter or Crime Fighter for this guy - honestly, I rarely say this, but I'd be happy to see him without any synergy - it seems fitting, he's probably too surly with the symbiote to get on with anyone . Loner sounds like a fitting class to me, honestly.
As for personality, Conflicted feels right to me, to represent how the two personalities are vying here. If someone else has a strong preference then it's no big deal to me, as it doesn't affect gameplay, but I'd rather keep Conflicted.
As for cost, I'd like to see him a little above C3G classic Spidey - 260 would be ideal, but I'd personally be okay with as high as 280. 240 is as low as I'd really be happy to go.

So here's what I've got:




The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Sinister set.
Its model number and name are #058-60 / Spider-Man.


Name - Spider-Man
Secret Identity -Peter Parker


Species - Symbiote
Uniqueness - Unique Hero
Class - Loner
Personality - Conflicted
Size/Height - Medium 5


5 Life
Move 6
Range 2
Attack 6
Defence 4


Symbiotic-Senses 12

If Spider-Man is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, Spider-Man takes no damage and may immediately use his Tendril Swing 3 special power.


Tendril Swing 3

Instead of his normal move, Spider-Man may use his Tendril Swing. Tendril Swing has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Spider-Man’s Tendril Swing movement, ignore elevations. Spider-Man may swing over water without stopping, swing over figures without becoming engaged, and swing over obstacles such as ruins. Spider-Man may not Tendril Swing more than 40 levels up or down in a single Tendril Swing. When Spider-Man uses Tendril Swing, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. After using Tendril Swing 3, you may use it one additional time.

Symbiote Rage

After attacking an adjacent figure with Spider-Man’s normal attack, if Spider-Man inflicted at least one wound, you may attack an adjacent figure again with Spider-Man’s normal attack. You may continue attacking adjacent figures until you do not inflict any wounds. Spider-Man cannot attack more than 3 times in a single turn. After taking a turn with Spider-Man, remove one Order Marker from this Army Card for each figure Spider-Man destroyed this turn that was not a Destructible Object, Android, Construct or Undead.

Superstrength

Thanks for the reply.


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; August 26th, 2016 at 11:17 AM.
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  #18033  
Old August 26th, 2016, 10:51 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Symbiote Rage is clever. I'd drop him down to melee range if you're doing that (or a version of it), but it's definitely a cool idea.

Really not liking him as a vigilante. Besides not liking him in that synergy web, I don't think it's really representative. In the original comics, the symbiote never actually influenced his behavior at all. In other media where they do the "more reckless/impulsive/angry" direction, it's usually a relatively subtle thing. He starts getting show-offy, he goes a little overboard with the subduing criminals, he has weird dance sequences at clubs, and so on. It's not like his whole MO changes or anything. I'd go for a Brash/Angry/Reckless personality and stick with Crime Fighter (or maybe Fighter?).
I definitely see what you mean when it comes to range and the Rage power - what I think I'll do instead of dropping his range (which I'd like to keep at 2 for parity with Venom) is make it some that SR only works in melee.
I can see your point on Vigilante - it seemed right to me, but I'm far from attached to it. That being said, I'm really not feeling Fighter or Crime Fighter for this guy - honestly, I rarely say this, but I'd be happy to see him without any synergy. Loner sounds like a fitting class to me, honestly.
As for personality, Conflicted feels right to me, to represent how the two personalities are vying here. If someone else has a strong preference then it's no big deal to me, as it doesn't affect gameplay, but I'd rather keep Conflicted.
As for cost, I'd like to see him a little above C3G classic Spidey - 260 would be ideal, but I'd personally be okay with as high as 280. 240 is as low as I'd really be happy to go.
to Loner. Smart pick. And Conflicted definitely works for him as well.

I feel like 230-240 should be our target for points. I know the symbiote is ostensibly a power-up, but there's a reason he abandoned it. I'd be perfectly happy compromising and letting him tie C3G Spidey, though.
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  #18034  
Old August 26th, 2016, 10:54 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Symbiote Rage is clever. I'd drop him down to melee range if you're doing that (or a version of it), but it's definitely a cool idea.

Really not liking him as a vigilante. Besides not liking him in that synergy web, I don't think it's really representative. In the original comics, the symbiote never actually influenced his behavior at all. In other media where they do the "more reckless/impulsive/angry" direction, it's usually a relatively subtle thing. He starts getting show-offy, he goes a little overboard with the subduing criminals, he has weird dance sequences at clubs, and so on. It's not like his whole MO changes or anything. I'd go for a Brash/Angry/Reckless personality and stick with Crime Fighter (or maybe Fighter?).
I definitely see what you mean when it comes to range and the Rage power - what I think I'll do instead of dropping his range (which I'd like to keep at 2 for parity with Venom) is make it some that SR only works in melee.
I can see your point on Vigilante - it seemed right to me, but I'm far from attached to it. That being said, I'm really not feeling Fighter or Crime Fighter for this guy - honestly, I rarely say this, but I'd be happy to see him without any synergy. Loner sounds like a fitting class to me, honestly.
As for personality, Conflicted feels right to me, to represent how the two personalities are vying here. If someone else has a strong preference then it's no big deal to me, as it doesn't affect gameplay, but I'd rather keep Conflicted.
As for cost, I'd like to see him a little above C3G classic Spidey - 260 would be ideal, but I'd personally be okay with as high as 280. 240 is as low as I'd really be happy to go.
to Loner. Smart pick. And Conflicted definitely works for him as well.

I feel like 230-240 should be our target for points. I know the symbiote is ostensibly a power-up, but there's a reason he abandoned it. I'd be perfectly happy compromising and letting him tie C3G Spidey, though.
Cool with anything between 240 and 260, personally - and thanks.

Still deciding between this guy and Scott, but one of them's going into the round after the present one.


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  #18035  
Old August 26th, 2016, 11:12 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Cool. You'll be getting a vote from me. Both characters are overdue.
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  #18036  
Old August 26th, 2016, 12:23 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I'm not sure I like 6 attack, 2 range on Symbiote Spidey. I'd rather see him be 5 attack, 4 range.

I'd say Peter holds the symbiote's true potential in check a bit (as he is unwilling to fully give in), and I don't know that Peter really uses the tendrils as much as Venom in a short range, extra arm or stabby-lashy thing way. He'll still be plenty powerful in melee with Symbiotic rage, and you'll still be able to represent his web-slinging.

As is, he'd be really useful with someone like Red Skull... Reap the full benefits of Symbiotic Rage without any of the downsides. Not sure how I feel about that.

Finally, this guy might be even more of a pain to play against than OG Spidey... His roll is higher, but not by a lot, and he had an extra defense die to help him when he misses his D20. Put that together with a huge attack potential (even if he does lose order markers he'll still be hard to take down), and he may be a real chore to play against.

What if you instead used something like this:

Species: MUTATE

Range: 4
Attack: 5

SYMBIOTIC CONFLICT
Spider-Man has the species of Symbiote in addition to what is listed on this card. After attacking with Spider-Man, if he inflicted a wound on an adjacent figure, he may attack again. You may continue attacking until Spider-Man does not inflict a wound on an adjacent figure. At the end of your turn, roll the 20-sided die, subtracting 1 from the roll for each figure Spider-Man destroyed this turn. If you roll a 1(?) or fewer, all of Spider-Man's special powers are negated for the rest of the game.

This could show him using the suit until it turns him really bloodthirsty, and at that point his conscience kicks in and he tears the suit off. A less punishing version would be that instead of losing al his powers, he just loses Symbiotic rage for the rest of the game.

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