4th>10th

[scorpionslayer]

you guys act like the 4th have to be comined with valiant other figures. They have a valiant personality by themselves. They can be their own army. And there is notin wrong with having a all valiant army. Most valiant figures are pretty good.

[Onacara]

Originally Posted by scorpionslayer

you guys act like the 4th have to be comined with valiant other figures. They have a valiant personality by themselves. They can be their own army. And there is notin wrong with having a all valiant army. Most valiant figures are pretty good.

You can fit 6 squads in a standard 24 start zone which is only 420 points, so in a 500 point tournament you are shorting yourself 80 points.

[Onacara]

Originally Posted by Einar's puppy

For the record, there are quite a few Valiant units. I bolded units that work well in a 4th mass army. Even if the unit doesn't have a great power ranking, there are quite a few options for a friendly game build. In a tournament setting, sentinels, knights, and Charos all do very well with the 4th mass. You have options, it just comes down to which champion do you use, and how many squads do you use.

* 4th Massachusetts Line
* Acolarh
* Alastair MacDirk
* Chardris
* Charos
* Concan the Kyrie Warrior
* Eldgrim the Viking Champion
* Finn the Viking Champion
* Jorhdawn
* Kyntela Gwyn
* Knights of Weston
* Sgt. Drake Alexander
* Sgt. Drake Alexander (SOTM)
* Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
* Sentinels of Jandar
* Sir Denrick
* Sir Dupuis
* Sir Gilbert
* Templar Cavalry
* Thorgrim the Viking Champion

And you can build the 10th into any army...so again...you are limiting them to 14 partners besides themselves.

[Jexik]

Okay, it's back.

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by Onacara

And you can build the 10th into any army...so again...you are limiting them to 14 partners besides themselves.

What does your wife think about 14 partners being too limiting?

Anyway, joking aside, you usually don't have more than 3 or 4 different cards in a tournament anyway so... Valiant Mass are good.

[Onacara]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Eh, nevermind.

It was funny though Jexik...

[dok]

The discussion I had in the "Massive Einar Team" thread (which basically evolved into a 10th vs. Harq discussion) led me to think a bit more broadly about this.

Take all the ranged common squads. Some of them (Omicrons, Blasts, AGs) clearly must be played in specific army builds. Others (Gorillinators, Druge, RAs) just aren't competitive as the core of an army, outside of specific matchups or maps. Finally, the Microcorp are expensive enough that they dictate the choice of most of your army if you use them.

That leaves six common squads that can be the core ranged squad in a wide variety of army builds. All of those squads can passably be used in this army:

??? squad x3 or squad x4
80 Deathreavers x2
80 Raelin RotV
120/150/180 Kaemon Awa/Q10/Q9

That army can range in price from 460 to 620, and is pretty competitive most of the time against a lot of armies. You can tweak the figures in that army; I'm just using it as an example of how these figures can be used as "generic ranged squad".

In the army I listed above for the points, in general, I'd rank the squads in this order:

1. Stingers
2. 10th
3. 4th
4. Harqs
5. AA
6. TSA

Aside from that, each one of those squads has a specific synerger-iffic army they do well in, where they are clearly the best choice:

1. 4th - valiant army - i.e. 4th Mass, plus either Drake, or KoW+Gilbert, or Sentinels, or Cap America/Charos, etc.
2. 10th - Marcus & Soldier armies, with Romans/Greeks and MBS/NGS
3. Harqs - Kato Katsuro, Harqs&Yari army.
4. Stingers - Hive armies, typically Drones+Stingers.
5. AA - Vipers and Archer frenzy armies, with Mittens.
6. TSA - Hatamoto Taro and unique samurai squads.

Again, ranked in the order of how good I think those armies are, in general, against a wide range of armies.

[Johngee]

Originally Posted by ABOMINATION

I know. It's the fact that you're pressured to get a certain (valiant) type of army. Without a valiant army, I'd say that the 4th are a little bit worse than the 10th. Of course, the 4th did beat the 10th in the 1770's, maybe they can do it again.....

This has been a very interesting discussion ... great banter guys! I was only drawn to it because it's the "Thread Of The Week." I'm still chuckling over the "WTF-WTF" faux pas! Personnally I don't think any one is going to absolutely win this argument. Both side have valid points to consider. Historically, the red coated British soldiers were far superior to the colonist militias in the use of the bayonet and in maneuver, being a well disciplined army. However, the "All Valiant" aspect, although limiting in some regards has significant advantages especially using guerilla warfare tactics. What I would like to see added to the HS inventory is similarly costed units of the period to enhance the 4th and the 10th. Do you think we will ever see Hessian Merceraries, Mohawk/Iroquis Scouts, French Allies, Patriotic Marksmen Snipers, Cavalry and even cannons? Then we can tweak the HS rules enough (i.e. double the range) to do some serious War Gaming.

[kpotassiumk19]

I agree that the 4th mass are better in an all valiant army. Without the valiant bonus, 10th reg crush the 4th mass with bayonet special and melee def. However, the 4th will beat the 10th reg if they have a valiant army. Also, the 4th mass are only 70pts via 75pts so it can be the difference of x2 4th mass AND Isamu against x2 10th reg and they both add up to 150pts. Isamu could be the difference of the game.



P.S. Isamu is not valiant, so there is no point in having him in a 4th mass army.

[GreatWhiteWolf]

can someone please explain the "wait then fire" special attack ?
i know you just wait one turn then you add 1 dice for your attack the next turn
but after that turn do you have to wait again ?

[The B.I.V.]

Whoa, pal. You've got it all wrong. It all happens on the same turn. If your units don't move (during the movement phase), then when they attack (during the attack pahse) they get the extra attack die.

You have to not move every time you want to use this (it doesn't stack).

Brandon

[GreatWhiteWolf]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

Whoa, pal. You've got it all wrong. It all happens on the same turn. If your units don't move (during the movement phase), then when they attack (during the attack pahse) they get the extra attack die.

You have to not move every time you want to use this (it doesn't stack).

Brandon

oh ok thanks, sometimes i get confused with how some of the special attacks work
maybe you could help me with one more
"bonding" special ability, you don't have to have an order marker on a, say a human champion, when you are using the knights do you?

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteWolf

"bonding" special ability, you don't have to have an order marker on a, say a human champion, when you are using the knights do you?

No, you do not need an order marker on the champion (or beast, or whatever you are bonding with), you get the turn as a "bonus."