Killing Major Q9 -- Help please!

[KCU Master 2007]

Typically when I play I lean to a valiant army consisting of the 4th Mass., Knights of Weston, Gilbert, and possibly Deneric depending on point values.

I have little problems when dealing with most every other army I've come across but one character that I continually have problems with is Q9.

So, I need help coming up with a strategy to kill Q9 with the army I've posted (or minor changes but keeping the army valiant for the def bonus for the 4th Mass.).

I play under the understanding of the rules that when a special attack is used there are no modifiers (glyphs, auras, or height advantages with the exception of Valiant Army Defense). This is why I have problems with dealing with Q9's special attack (can't spell it and don't have it in front of me but we all know what it is). If my understanding of the rules is wrong, PLEASE correct me as I want to begin getting into more competitive play such as local tournaments.

Thanks all

EDIT: if the answer to this is posted elsewhere please point me in the right direction and I apologize for the inconvenience. I have skimmed many of the thread topics and not found this discussion.

[rdhight]

My answer to this can be found here.

[KCU Master 2007]

So, just to make sure I understand what you are saying, pin the major down with knights and attack from range with the 4th correct?

With his high def, Q9 should repel many attacks from the 4th, even if positioned on high ground and employing WTF.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

So, just to make sure I understand what you are saying, pin the major down with knights and attack from range with the 4th correct?

With his high def, Q9 should repel many attacks from the 4th, even if positioned on high ground and employing WTF.

In this particular matchup, it doesn't matter too terribly much whether you attack Q9 with the 4th Mass or the Knights. The knights have four attacks of 3, and the 4th Mass can get four of 2-4 depending on WTF/height/phase of the moon. So your damage potential is going to be very similar. If a bonding hero is still alive, getting that fifth attack would be a good reason to attack with the knights. If the knights have Q9 pinned down on low ground while the 4th can get above him, that would be a good reason to attack with the minutemen.

What you would like is for Q9 to be forced to attack the knights on his own turn. Once he's being forced to shoot at 4-defense melee figures rather than 2-3-defense ranged figures, you're in a lot better shape no matter whether the knights or 4th Mass are attacking.

As far as his defense repelling many attacks, remember that luck is on your side. If you roll 1 skull and he rolls 5 shields, he gets nothing extra. If you roll 5 skulls and he rolls 1 shield, you get a dead Q9 immediately. You put yourself in position to make a big play.

[KCU Master 2007]

Ok. I'm going to play with a friend of mine tomorrow who uses Q9 in almost every build he uses. I'll try that against him

EDIT: What about special attacks negating all def. modifiers? Just so I know

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

EDIT: What about special attacks negating all def. modifiers? Just so I know

Not sure what you mean. You'll still get all of your height, glyphs, Thorgrim, Raelin, etc. defense bonuses against special attacks, if that's what you're asking.

[KCU Master 2007]

Ok. The way I read the rules is one of the things that makes special attacks special is that the defender doesn't get any benefits. If that's wrong then defending against Q9 is not as bad as I thought.

Does the attacker get to keep all of his modifiers also (glyphs, Finn, etc.)

Can't believe I misread the rules that badly

[stay_golden_PONYBOY]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

EDIT: What about special attacks negating all def. modifiers? Just so I know

Special attacks are never modified for height etc.

As the defender, you do get any defensive bonuses

[rdhight]

s_g_P is correct; while the attack dice of special attacks are locked values that don't change (except for a few recent heroes like Shiori and some elves), the defender can gain defense dice normally, just as he would against a normal attack. That's part of what makes Raelin so dominant.

[stay_golden_PONYBOY]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

Ok. The way I read the rules is one of the things that makes special attacks special is that the defender doesn't get any benefits. If that's wrong then defending against Q9 is not as bad as I thought.

Does the attacker get to keep all of his modifiers also (glyphs, Finn, etc.)

Can't believe I misread the rules that badly

In your example, Q9 can use glyphs, Finn, etc for his normal attack only. His special attack does not get any of these bonuses.

You, as the defender, can use glyphs, height, etc, to boost your defense against Q9's attack (normal or special). If you couldn't use these additions for defense, it would say so on the card.

[KCU Master 2007]

Ok. Thanks guys. The way my group of friends/family all read the rules figured that if the attack couldn't get modified then neither could defense.

That makes a world of difference against ANYONE especially, keeping to the the topic, Q9.

[spider_poison]

Your question is one that lots of people consider when building an army. My honest opinion is that valiant armies don't match up well against Q9. Sure, they can still win, but it's going to be an uphill battle (no pun intended ). If you want the best valiant counter for Q9, I would choose Charos. Unfortunately, he is a huge investment of points, so you may not be able to field him unless you usually play in higher than 400-500 point games. If you have only a few points left, you can always take the poor man's champion, Eldgrim, and treat him as more than just a sacrificial lamb. The odds won't be heavily in your favor with Charos, but he can hold his own.