Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[ollie]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

As far as DW6K I am not seeing the stealth dodge as DWish. The DWs have always seemed more like the lumbering juggernauts of the Soulborg armies. Stealth Dodge seems like a light-on-your-feet ability (I am picturing a DW playing dodgeball ).

Also, the range attack doesn't work for me either. As a DW he should have a range attack but the chosen fig has no visible range weapon as do other DWs.

You don't play DW7K much do you?

Alas, I think you might not be the only one.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior

OK I understand where Killometer is coming from, but what I have always wondered is whre are the normal Kyrie of Valhalla. Most of these heroes have Aura, or some special ability but what about joe-smo Sergeant of the Kyrie...well in this case i think Tyrian fits the bill and I like how he adds something to the ranks of Jandar.

So I vote YES to reveiw Tyrian.

Deathwakler 6000

When I first saw this guy I was like cool a better DWK7, who has Staelth Dodge. I can see him being a homing missle to a main taget to take it out, just like I wish DWK7 was. But then I noticed that he had range. Why? This guy should be a homing missle and then knock down a target with his hammer...but he has a ranged weopon hidden somewhere.

This is the hang up I have so I vote NO to reveiw DWK6000

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by ollie

You don't play DW7K much do you?

Alas, I think you might not be the only one.

You are right, DW7K does have Stealth Dodge; I should have mentioned that in my earlier post. It is my personal opinion that it just doesn't work for me for DWs.

Thank you for pointing that out though.

That being said, since it is on an official fig, I would be willing to give on that point even though it still doesn't jive with me. Based on the other stats and abilities of the fig, however, I would still have to stand by my earlier vote since the Stealth Dodge wasn't the only thing.

[killercactus]

I don't think I understand the hate on DW6K.

This is exactly what DW7K should've been. Maybe the ranged attack of 1 is unnecessary, but I don't really mind it.

DW7K has Stealth Dodge also, and 6K's version of Self Destruct is way, way better and is actually worth using him for. Very akin to the Frost Giant's Dying Swipe, but a little more potent I think.

I think he's decently priced at 120 Points, also. One melee attack of 5 and the dying swipe thing is decent for a 1-life figure that loses Stealth Dodge when it can actually kill something.

I like him.

[ollie]

Despite my sarcastic comment, I agree with Dad_Scaper's and Lamaclown's overall assessments that this doesn't feel quite right as a unit. DW7K has a sculpt on which Stealth Dodge is reasonable, but from the picture this looks like quite a sturdy figure. Perhaps some other anti-range power would be more appropriate?

[Dad_Scaper]

KC and Ollie (and Krysto), my vote was not based on concerns about his cost. The sculpt is a good one and could be made to work in the Deathwalker family, assuming its scale is decent, which for now I'm assuming it is.

But there's nothing about the figure or its theme that says "stealth dodge" or "range attack" or "must move to use hammer." On the contrary, the sculpt looks about as subtle as, oh, a hammer.

KC, I suspect *you* don't play this way, but some people I play with (*cough* *drewcula*) care deeply about the aesthetics of the sculpt and the relationship between the sculpt and the text appearing in the left hand side of the box. In this card there is, to my eye, a major disconnect there, and that's enough for me to vote .

For my vote at least, it was mainly a theme/sculpt decision and not a point value one. I do wonder whether he's balanced at 120 but I didn't really get that far in my analysis.

edit 1: Ninja'ed succinctly by Ollie, who proves that academic types *do* know how to get to a point.

edit 2: This bears repeating -

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Krysto, your stuff is good, with some tweaking I could see several of these being at least reviewed. The judges here are really setting the bar high so don't get discouraged. Let it motivate you to improve.

As I wrote a number of pages ago, we are looking for a bunch of things in our nominees. They must be balanced, they must be aesthetic, they must be accessible, understandable, and elegant. They must bring something new, novel, or otherwise valuable to the game, and they must fit diamond-perfectly into the larger canon. It is my goal not to turn away a unit that meets those criteria, but failing even one of them is enough for me to say no.

It doesn't mean the candidate isn't a good custom or wouldn't be a lot of fun to play. I admire almost every custom that's been nominated, including every single one of krysto's, it's just I have a long checklist. I had a lot of fun playtesting Gorvath but had it survived to my vote, based on the playtesting I'd already done I would have voted the same as my colleagues.

I'm not going to apologize but remember we have a long laundry list and just because we (I) say no doesn't mean we (I) don't like the figure & wouldn't want to toy with it for awhile.

[killercactus]

Ehh, I don't know. Heroscape has at least a bit of a history of giving guys range that don't look like they have it (see Mezzodemons, even Tandros Kreel) or not giving range to guys that look like they could have it (see Grimnak and his much debated bow). Even DW9K and DW8K's sculpts look to have been reversed.

I'll admit though that aesthetics are lower on my ladder of important things than gameplay is. Maybe nix the range then, change Stealth Dodge to Impenetrable Armor or something like that, and change the power very slightly so that it doesn't work exactly the same as Stealth Dodge does?

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by Paronychodon

I'd like to nominate my custom Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior to the SoV.



As you can probably tell, the figure is one of the Protectors of Ullar. I prefer the one with his weapon raised, as that matches the drawing of the character in Thormun's Journal. There is no unique special ability here, but I think he has a unique combination of stats and abilities that are very thematic and match up perfectly with his description in the Journal.

I've been playtesting Tyrian since he was voted into the CHCG24, and I think he's balanced. He's fast, an excellent treasure glyph-grabber, and can do a lot of damage. That is, until he gets attacked. He's definitely got a glass jaw. I hope you like him.

I have to admit that I was underwhelmed at first seeing this card. (I did like the look, photoshopped or not), but I thought it seemed bland for a named Kyrie hero.

Then I did some research and saw that Paronychodon had done his (see below, for some relevant excerpts).

The card is, imo, solid and interesting. The hero is more like Concan than some of the other more interesting (to me, anyway) Kyries, but most of all this is a great attempt, I think, to bring Tyrian to life (back to life, actually).

He is fast, double attacking, etc. Honestly, the only thing I'd have kind of liked to have seen was Stealth Flight.

I like very much that the urge to boost his defense/life was kept in check. This feels like a nice addition to the Scape canon.

I vote YES to review Tyrian (assuming it isn't already too late; I lost count of the NOs).

Some excerpts from the Journal:

Spoiler Alert!

Tyrian puts a finger to his lips and makes a hand gesture beckoning me to follow him. He weaves his way through dark halls, as I follow. Tyrian has always struck me as an odd sort of fellow. He trained under Ullar as one of his protectors, and still carries their unique style of crossbow at his side, however shortly after the rise of the Valkyrie he joined up with Jandar and has acted as a sort of messenger.

Tyrian pulls back on the reigns of his horse, he drops behind a grouping of Ullar’s Protectors and with a calm and deliberate look in his eyes he draws his weapon, points it squarely at the back of one of the Protectors, and fires. The crossbow bolt whistles through the air and finds its target with deadly precision. The Protector cries out in pain and then slumps over in his saddle. Confusion and chaos set in, horses whiney as they’re forced to turn sharply, their riders looking for the source of the attack. Before I can react with even a word of warning, because of a reloading mechanism in Tyrian’s crossbow, a second bolt is loosed as quickly as the first.

Three of Ullar’s faithful Protectors lie scattered upon the ground and with them Jandar’s most trusted messenger, Tyrian the swift.

I'm sorry, krysto, but I also vote NO to review Deathwalker 6000. I agree with most of the critiques given. Aside from other comments, I'm also thrown by the idea that this seems to be a prelude to DW7k, but is actually a better unit, imo. Anyhow, this is again a unit that I think with revision could work. You've got some great responses here so far to help with that.

[tcglkn]

Wow, with those excerpts, Paronychodon did an excellent job in my opinion capturing the character. This almost makes me want to open my extra NIB Wave 9 Heroes just to repaint Atlaga.

[tcglkn]

Oh and I have a question. Can we nominate Glyphs?

[robbdaman]

Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox

what about joe-smo Sergeant of the Kyrie...

Who do you think these guys are?

Sentinels of Jandar, Minions of Utgar, Einar Imperium and Protectors of Ullar.

But seriously there are a couple Kyrie that aren't the aura projectors. I doubt Jandar needs more though as they have the most with Raelin, Concan and Kelda. Meanwhile poor Aquilla and Vydar have no friends.

[krysto2002]

I'm taking your comments into consideration and duly updating his card... please withhold comments for about 30 mins while I do so, I'll have a fresh version ready soon...