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  #4489  
Old March 25th, 2021, 11:47 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

All fair points, from what I'm seeing the miniature is medium 4. It's pincers go up high enough to justify that. It fits on 1 base, lets sprawled out around the edges like you'd expect and it is held up by a clear support in the center. Really handy and simple to put on a base.

I really still just disagree, I don't like what Otar expresses. If you did a side by side comparison you are showing 2 things with Otar:

1. Charge in, attack.
2. Toss what I don't kill.

Stag Beetles don't charge, their horns are not for impaling nor are their horns for crushing things. They definitely aren't a certain Gen 1 Pokemon, though I can see why that misconception would be the case. Their whole thing is grab and throw or scoop and throw.

Maybe if I moved it to where you still attacked "after" the attempted throw and removed any chance to be wounded from the initial toss of a giant bug throwing you into the air (By the way that's my main problem with Otar as a figure, I don't like that being thrown over it's head completely won't hurt you when you come down. Major theme break for me).

I'll definitely look at reducing the price.

EDIT: It's kind of ironic because I can guess by reading Otar's book that he used to work differently and probably closer to what I would like him to at some point in design lol.

EDIT: Definitely have some ideas about what to try next.
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  #4490  
Old March 26th, 2021, 12:00 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Heh, I wasn't even thinking of Heracross, but I still remember that one now that you mention it.

I think that there's plenty of room to tweak Otar's ability to something that is more in line with your intended theme without having to resort to switching their places, if that's the route that you want to explore. The main things to be cautious of with that route are making sure that you can't lava dunk (if you removed the same-level restriction) and that each figure is still unique enough to be interesting.
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  #4491  
Old March 26th, 2021, 12:04 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Heh, I wasn't even thinking of Heracross, but I still remember that one now that you mention it.

I think that there's plenty of room to tweak Otar's ability to something that is more in line with your intended theme without having to resort to switching their places, if that's the route that you want to explore. The main things to be cautious of with that route are making sure that you can't lava dunk (if you removed the same-level restriction) and that each figure is still unique enough to be interesting.
Oh no... Astro... you broke my heart :U

https://www.google.com/search?q=hera...hrome&ie=UTF-8 Heracross is Gen 2

https://www.google.com/search?q=pins...4dUDCA0&uact=5 Pinsir is Gen 1

You are now sentenced to read the pokedex and provide an essay on why Bug Pokemon are some of the most diversely created pokemon.
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  #4492  
Old March 26th, 2021, 12:10 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Darn! I guess that it's time to step down as a judge; my Pokémon knowledge has dwindled far too much over the years.

Last edited by Astroking112; March 26th, 2021 at 12:11 AM. Reason: In my defense, Heracross looks much more similar and even has a similar mechanic of tossing stuff overhead.
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  #4493  
Old March 26th, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Idea based on Net Trip.
Pincer Toss 12
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent small or medium figure and roll the 20-sided die. Add 3 to your roll if the targeted figure is small. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to this Giant Stag Beetle, and this figure may not roll more than 1 die for defense this turn.
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  #4494  
Old March 26th, 2021, 02:22 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

That's a rad direction, net trip is a route I hadnt considered and fits flavor very well! Thanks for the idea. I'll tinker with that one.

Last edited by Shiftrex; March 28th, 2021 at 04:28 PM.
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  #4495  
Old March 29th, 2021, 02:51 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Hey everyone, I am working hard on the next submission of the Wulfing Hunters. I've decided to stick with them and try to find a way to polish them up more for use in the SoV.

Some of the feedback that I got previously was that the "invisible" hitzones was unintuitive last time because while hiding: why would hunters give away other hunters? Makes sense, they are comparable. I think that Hunter's Howl was also a bit messier than it needed to be, so I'm going to try and clean those up.

Right now I'm considering 2 directions, one where the Wulfing continue to interact Hunter Heroes and one where the Wulfing no longer interact with Hunter Heroes.

Direction 1:

GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = WULFING
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = HUNTERS
PERSONALITY = FEARSOME
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 50

AMBUSH HUNTERS
As long as at least 2 Wulfing Hunters are engaged you may move and attack with up to 4 unengaged Wulfing Hunters.

LURKING HUNTER HERO BONDING
After taking a turn with the Wulfing Hunters if no more than 2 Wulfing Hunters moved and attacked this turn, you may take a turn with an unengaged Hunter Hero that you control.

STALKER'S CONCEALMENT
While a Wulfing Hunter is unengaged it has no visible hitzones.


Direction 2:

GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = WULFING
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = HUNTERS
PERSONALITY = FEARSOME
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 50

AMBUSH HUNTERS
As long as at least 2 Wulfing Hunters are engaged you may move and attack with up to 4 unengaged Wulfing Hunters.

STALKER'S CONCEALMENT
While a Wulfing Hunter is unengaged it has no visible hitzones.


I think both of these have a cleaner version of Silent Stalker which has been renamed to communicate to you the idea that they are hiding. I do not think it is worth it to find a way to say that "non-hunter friendly figures" would kill their concealment, honestly they should still be able to hide regardless and it should be believable if there is something else to draw attention away from a hiding Wulfing.

The Hunter Hero bonding is possible on the table to give you options, thought and strategy so you can choose what you want to do instead of just having the easy flow chart of move and activate. Lurking Bonding would require you to use an unengaged hunter hero and it would require you not to have triggered your Ambush power acting as a psuedo 4 man. I think this is the most accurate look at these powers broken apart and it should communicate the theme of the hunter hero "lurking" in the background waiting for the opportune moment to strike. Hunters should be strategic and my Wulfing as a species should care about engagement and not engagement as their approach to battle.

That's currently where I'm at, definitely looking for help workshopping either here or over at my own thread. All thoughts welcome but this is where I'm at in my thought process currently.
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  #4496  
Old March 29th, 2021, 03:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

The change to Stalker's Concealment is a good one. Though I prefer the old name.

I am not a fan of Lurking Hunter Hero Bonding. That and Ambush Hunters is basically a single power that's messier than the original. It also does not address the concern of dissonance between silent stalking hunters and pack attackers. I kind of feel that dissonance in your second design as well, which strongly encourages swarming which goes against the silent stalking hunter theme.

If you want to go with a stalking hunters theme, focus on that. Maybe something like:
Quote:
STALKER'S CONCEALMENT
While a Wulfing Hunter is unengaged it has no visible hitzones.

ISOLATED PREY
When attacking with a Wulfling Hunter, add an additional attack die if the defending figure is not adjacent to any other figures friendly to that figure.
If you want to go with a pack hunting mentality, maybe something like:
Quote:
HUNTERS' CALL
After moving and before attacking with Wulfing Hunters, you may move up to two other unengaged Hunters you control up to 4 spaces each.

HUNTING PACK
When attacking with a Wulfing Hunter, add an additional attack die if the defending figure is adjacent to at least one other Hunter you control.
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  #4497  
Old March 29th, 2021, 03:27 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Ok those are some excellent suggestions. Can I ask what the dissonance is between between stealth hunting and pack hunting? Wolves do both, in conjunction and are a great example of ambush tactics that leverages keeping a portion of your force unseen (no hitzones) with a coordinated ambush (involving a lot of units appearing only under key conditions).

Solitary hunters would be the only ones that do not use stealth to augment a pack mentality. As in 1 mountain lion to contrast.
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  #4498  
Old March 29th, 2021, 04:37 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Can I ask what the dissonance is between between stealth hunting and pack hunting? Wolves do both, in conjunction and are a great example of ambush tactics that leverages keeping a portion of your force unseen (no hitzones) with a coordinated ambush (involving a lot of units appearing only under key conditions).
I didn't have a problem with it in the first place, because I recognize that's how hunting often works. But others felt differently. To an extent I understand the concern; silent lone hunters stalking prey is a different visual and gameplay feel than bonding-when-engaged attackers.
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  #4499  
Old March 29th, 2021, 07:53 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I like that the engagement requirement is at the beginning of the turn now, so you don't have to choose not to attack, in order to use it. While I didn't personally mind the choice not to attack, since the Mohicans already do that, others did have an issue with that, so this will help it appeal to them.

Interestingly, in certain matchups, I don't think this completely removes the choice not to attack. Melee is forced to engage so you can get free activations there, but Ranged isn't, so if you kill 1 of the 2 engaged figures, they aren't going to re-engage for you on their turn unless they have to. Concealment will encourage the counter play of just engaging 1 - 2 Wulfing at a time. With that tactic, as long as than can kill at least 1 Wulfing per turn, you'll never get to activate more than 2 Wulfing.

I do like "Silent Stalkers", but "Stalkers Concealment"? is good too. Either name is fine.

I mentioned this in the Utah Discord server, but I think that a variant of "Hoard Movement" from the Zombies of Morindan might work well here. You could consider changing it to something like this;
Quote:
Coordinated Hunting (Ambush Hunters as a power name didn't feel like it fit this wording as well)
If at least 2 Wulfing Hunters are engaged, You may move up to 4 unengaged Wulfing Hunters that you control each turn. However, you may attack with only 2 of those Wulfing Hunters.
You said elsewhere that you like having choice in your bonding powers, so this is how I would do that in conjunction with the previous power I suggested;
Quote:
Lurking Hunter Strategic Bonding
After revealing an order marker on the Wulfing Hunters, if at least 2 Wulfing Hunters are engaged, you may first take a turn with any unengaged Hunter Hero that you control. If you did not take a turn a Hunter hero, you may attack with 4 Wulfing Hunters this turn.
I'm not sure if this wording properly conveys that the number of attacks is only being increased if you fulfill the 2 engaged Wulfing requirement. Scytale, or another rules/wording expert will have to say whether it does. If it doesn't then word it like this: "If you did not take a turn a Hunter hero, you may attack with 4 Wulfing Hunters that were unengaged prior to moving this turn instead of only 2."

Last edited by Leaf_It; March 29th, 2021 at 08:33 PM.
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  #4500  
Old March 29th, 2021, 11:10 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

What I see coming out of those suggestions should fit into something like this. Their identity as being able to work together shouldnt require an additional trigger that would make them want to run headlong into combat. Moving the Hunter Hero should be harder, which will require them to weather a turn engaged against melee. Really difficult to do but a lot more feasible if they can move efficiently.

Then you still get the flexibility of 4 attacks or moving something like Arktos that they could definitely benefit from in their current form.

Pack Hunters / Coordinated Hunting
You may move up to 4 unengaged Wulfing Hunters that you control each turn. However, you may attack with only 2 of those Wulfing Hunters.

Lurking Hunter Strategic Bonding
After revealing an order marker on the Wulfing Hunters, if at least 2 Wulfing Hunters are engaged, you may first take a turn with any unengaged Hunter Hero that you control. If you did not take a turn a Hunter hero, you may attack with 4 Wulfing Hunters this turn.

Silent Stalkers
While a Wulfing Hunter is unengaged it has no visible hitzones.

Last edited by Shiftrex; March 29th, 2021 at 11:37 PM.
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