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  #13  
Old February 11th, 2019, 04:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmon View Post
This whole large base versus regular base thing has me curious. Why would there be any C3V ruling on aesthetics? A peanut base has clear gameplay implications, but this is odd to me. Am I missing something?
We suggest a large single because it fits best that way. If you fit him on small single, that's entirely fine.


Last edited by superfrog; February 11th, 2019 at 04:49 PM. Reason: There are some cases where it matters: fitting next to ruins, etc.
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  #14  
Old February 11th, 2019, 04:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

It's largely an aesthetic change and I rarely see it specified, but there are some instances where it might matter when trying to fit the figure in some small gaps. I doubt that it'd be a problem in most instances, though.
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  #15  
Old May 28th, 2019, 03:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

The C3V Rules Team would like to add the following R&Cs:
Quote:
Q: What happens first, Crushing Grasp or Counter Strike?
A: Counter Strike.
Counter Strike happens along with rolling defense dice, so it happens first.

Q: What happens first, Crushing Grasp or Cell Divide?
A: Cell Divide.
Powers that can prevent wounds, such as Cell Divide, Exoskeleton, Temporal Jump, Expendable Rabble, and Purple Heart take place before wounds are dealt, and therefore happen before the attack action is complete.

Q: What happens first, Crushing Grasp or Dying Swipe?
A: Dying Swipe.
Dying Swipe and Rupture happen before the figure is removed from the battlefield, and therefore happen before the attack action is complete.

Q: What happens first, Crushing Grasp or Scatter?
A: Scatter.
"After attacking" means after your attack action, and all triggered effects like Scatter, Defensive Vault, and Teleport Reinforcements have been resolved.

Q: How does Wounded Rage interact with Sujoah's Poison Sting Special Attack or Estivara's Venom Ray Special Attack?
A:
Roll for Wounded Rage after the initial attack wounds and after each poison wound inflicted, as long as Kozil is not destroyed.

Q: If Kozil kills a Mind Flayer Mastermind attacking him with Psionic Blast Special Attack, does Kozil lose an order marker?
A: No.
Wounded Rage happens "immediately," so it triggers before he loses an order marker due to Psionic Blast Special Attack.

Q: If Tandros chooses an adjacent Squad figure for Cleave and wounds Kozil with his normal attack, and then Kozil kills Tandros with Wounded Rage, is the Squad figure still destroyed?
A: No.
Wounded Rage happens "immediately," so it happens before the Cleave damage. Kozil could kill Tandros before Cleave has a chance to complete.

Q: What happens first, Wounded Rage or Cover Fire?
A: Wounded Rage.
Wounded Rage happens "immediately."

Q: What happens first, Wounded Rage or Mortal Strike?
A: Wounded Rage.
Wounded Rage happens "immediately," so it happens before other powers that happen due to wounding a figure, including Mortal Strike, Coil Crush, Lycanthropy, Cling, and Poison Weapons. If Kozil kills the attacking Hero, that Hero's power does not take effect. So, for example, if a Master of the Hunt hits Kozil with a normal attack and is killed by Wounded Rage, he would not get to roll for Mortal Strike. For Squad figures, powers like Poison Weapons would still take effect even if the attack was killed if there is another member of the squad still on the battlefield, since that figure's Army Card would remain in play.
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  #16  
Old May 28th, 2019, 06:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

I've added all of them to the main post now.
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  #17  
Old June 16th, 2021, 01:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

The text transcription has two subtle differences from the card (and the army card has a grammar issue, which I'll list afterwards):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
WOUNDED RAGE 13
When Kozil receives one or more wounds from a normal or special attack but is not destroyed, you must immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, inflict one 1 wound on a figure adjacent to Kozil, if possible.

CRUSHING GRASP 15
After attacking with Kozil, if Kozil attacked a small or medium figure and rolled at least one 1 skull and Kozil is still adjacent to that figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, inflict 2 wounds on that figure.
On the grammar problem, I checked to see if there was an earlier precedent for this wording template, or even any cases where this kind of incorrect grammar was "canonized" by Hasbro, but I could not find any. So as far as I know, this is the first and only incidence of this issue and thus (presumably) easy to correct. (Although I recognize that asking the committee to revisit a card and agree on a corrected grammar is not exactly easy for them. )

The grammar problem is two-fold: in the three-part condition for Crushing Grasp, there are double "ands" and non-parallel construction. The double conjunction could be grammatically acceptable if the construction had been parallel, but even then it is pretty uncommon and generally only used for literary emphasis.

Anyway, when a subject (in this case "Kozil") is repeated across multiple conjunctive phrases, proper English requires that subject to be written either once (at the beginning) or every time. On this card, "Kozil" is repeated for the first and last phrases but not the middle one. So either the third one needs to be deleted, or the middle one needs to be filled in. Or, if two Kozils are strongly desired here, then the three-phrase conjunction can be split into a two-phrase one with a follow-up. And in any case, the commas then need to be cleaned up.

So there are at least three ways this sentence could be corrected:
  1. if Kozil attacked a small or medium figure, and rolled at least 1 skull, and Kozil is still adjacent to that figure,

  2. if Kozil attacked a small or medium figure, and Kozil rolled at least 1 skull, and Kozil is still adjacent to that figure,

  3. if Kozil attacked a small or medium figure and rolled at least 1 skull, and if Kozil is still adjacent to that figure,
I recommend #1 for its brevity and ease of reading, but the committee may have reasons to go a different way. As long as the result communicates the intended gameplay and is grammatically sound, I think we would all be happy.


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  #18  
Old June 16th, 2021, 01:27 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

The issue is that the entire chain of clauses you are looking at it all dependent on "After attacking with Kozil". The lack of a comma makes it clearer that it's all one dependent condition that triggers in that time frame. I guess it's clear either way but it really starts to feel like a run-on.

If I were going to adjust it, I'd back out to the originating clause and go with:
After Kozil attacks a small or medium figure, if Kozil rolled at least 1 skull and is still adjacent to that figure,
This packages it in a way that avoids the double "and" while still making all the conditions intuitively point to the timing window.
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  #19  
Old June 16th, 2021, 02:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

I was trying to preserve as much of the original approach as I could, in an effort to make it easier for the decision-makers to consider fixing the grammar problem. Having said that, I do like your version better; it's shorter and reads more fluidly.

I would even go so far as to replace your second "Kozil" with a pronoun, since it would read a little better with no risk of ambiguity:
After Kozil attacks a small or medium figure, if he rolled at least 1 skull and is still adjacent to that figure,
Short and sweet, and still clear. When I make a rectangular card, your approach is what I would use for myself.

I do have one question remaining, though. Well, a pair of questions. Does "After Kozil attacks" allow any room for thinking it could be before defense dice, wounding, Counter Strike, Scatter, etc.? And/or does "After attacking with Kozil" absolutely 100% communicate that it's after all these things? If there's any implied difference in timing between "after X attacks" and "after attacking with X" then that could confer an advantage on the original opening phrase.


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  #20  
Old June 16th, 2021, 02:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

"After attacking" refers to a specific timing window, so it's pretty safe. "After Kozil attacks" is obviously the same meaning in a plain reading, but one could argue that by avoiding the classic construction we create some ambiguity. As such, you could mimic it a bit more by going with:
After attacking a small or medium figure with Kozil, if he rolled at least 1 skull and is still adjacent to that figure,
From a technical perspective it's still not quite the same as the traditional "after attacking" window, because that window occurs even if you didn't attack, while this window obviously depends on an attack (a specific sort of attack at that) having happened. Still, mimicking the wording this way makes it pretty hard to misunderstand the timing.
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  #21  
Old June 16th, 2021, 02:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Kozil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
After attacking a small or medium figure with Kozil, if he rolled at least 1 skull and is still adjacent to that figure,
... mimicking the wording this way makes it pretty hard to misunderstand the timing.
Using the classic construction as much as possible seems wise. I like this version.


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