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  #25  
Old June 8th, 2021, 04:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

Just skimming this thread here, but I like @lefton4ya 's suggestion best. Clear, easy to understand. It also doesn't fight against the established precedent of having glyph placement on competitive maps matter as a destination point. Earlier suggestions of "only the first figure per OM," or everyone going through this space, etc. for the sake of being different, are not intuitive and cause confusion.

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  #26  
Old June 8th, 2021, 07:49 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

Hey thanks for the comment! You may be right, as there is very often value in simplicity. It does fit with the set, and your point about not needing special considerations when and where to place these new glyphs is a good one.


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  #27  
Old June 10th, 2021, 10:58 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

I have grown more fond of the idea of a difference between these glyphs and Power Glyphs as of late, I have to admit. Nothing huge or to the extent of Treasure Glyphs and Power Glyphs, but a small yet interesting mechanic could be a very nice touch that also provides value to existing players, too.

To that end, I still think that these glyphs should probably have fixed positions on the map, especially given that they're a huge part of what we have to work with when designing boards. I'm not super concerned about this glyph in a tournament setting. If it turns out to be usable there, then cool, but I don't think that it should be a priority.
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  #28  
Old June 11th, 2021, 09:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

I go back and forth on differentiating them. On the one hand, they're black. On the other, as a Master Set it still makes sense to me that they don't throw any unnecessary curves at new players.

Something that just came to me, though: what if they were fell somewhere between normal and temporary power glyphs? Sort of the "uncommons" of the glyphs if you will. Something like always starting face-down, then having "At the end of the round in which this glyph was revealed, remove it from the game."

This would do two things: 1) change the timing of trying to control a glyph to winning initiative and grabbing it on OM 1 to get maximum use (or stealing it for 1 turn at the end of the round to deny it to your opponent), and 2) reshape the battlefield by making it a point of interest early/until it's gone, then allowing focus to shift elsewhere.


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  #29  
Old June 22nd, 2021, 12:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

We can make like C3G equipment glyphs (which they started rules for before Heroscape made Treasure Glyphs). Basically it is a normal glyph when stood on, or can be picked up to act as a treasure glyph.

Or make it have area of affect such as
Quote:
If this glyph is not occupied, all figures that start their turn within [5] spaces of the [Glyph of Movement] add 2 to their Move.
Brackets [] can be changed, but you get the idea that the glyph should be placed in areas that are hard to move through to speed up movement similar but different than road tiles, and people only go on to the tile to stop it's power for opponent. We can also make this combined with equipment glyph rules where it can be carried and the area of affect is from whoever is carrying the figure and can be either only for the person that picked up the glyph or for all, but I would rather do one or the other - equipment or area of affect.
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  #30  
Old June 26th, 2021, 01:34 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

I don't love the idea of using them as Equipment-like glyphs. Treasure Glyphs are a bit fiddly sometimes, but they're very versatile and work well enough for their purpose.

"Inverse Glyphs" that are active unless stood on could also be interesting, and it gives us a theme for the Weird Terrain and Ozuul/Space Shrimp. That said, they would almost certainly need a range limit as well to avoid becoming blanket modifiers for each game, and I don't love making two huge changes like that.
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  #31  
Old June 29th, 2021, 09:43 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

There was some additional discussion of alternative glyph types on the Discord. Since this was the main place on the forums we were tossing ideas back and forth, I'm including it here. Ideas included:
  1. Glyphs that can be turned on/off at the beginning of each round by revealing an X OM on the figure on the glyph
  2. Symmetrical effects for both (all) armies
  3. Using some of the AotV markers to indicate on/off status
  4. Flipping after initiative
  5. Flipping before setting OMs each round
  6. Once per round/game "Boon" glyphs that can be picked up by Unique Heroes; can't be dropped

1) I actually think I like this. Except I wouldn't complicate it with the X. Just let players decide at the start of each round. If two or more players occupy glyphs, roll the d20 to see who decides in what order (like any other timing conflict, say glyphs on lava field).
2) Rannveig is a normal power glyph, so this doesn't actually need new rules. If we don't do new rules, at least one symmetrical glyph might be neat. Heck, it would probably be neat with new rules, too.
3) Since glyphs naturally have a face-up/face-down orientation, there's no need to get the markers involved. Just flip the glyph itself.
4/5) I prefer before OMs. Which glyphs are/n't active may have some influence on where you want your OMs.
6) This is basically just Treasure glyphs, IMO. We already have Belt of Giant Strength and more that are one-time effects.

Putting it together, my proposal would be:
Quote:
[Name/Type] Glyphs start the game face-down. Before placing Order Markers each round, if a player controls a figure occupying a N/T Glyph, that player may flip that glyph face-up. Players may look at face-down N/T Glyphs occupied by their figures at any time.
One thing to note is we'd have to rework the OM-peeking and Reviving glyphs.


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  #32  
Old July 3rd, 2021, 04:13 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
  1. Glyphs that can be turned on/off at the beginning of each round by revealing an X OM on the figure on the glyph
  2. Symmetrical effects for both (all) armies
  3. Using some of the AotV markers to indicate on/off status
  4. Flipping after initiative
  5. Flipping before setting OMs each round
  6. Once per round/game "Boon" glyphs that can be picked up by Unique Heroes; can't be dropped

1) I actually think I like this. Except I wouldn't complicate it with the X. Just let players decide at the start of each round. If two or more players occupy glyphs, roll the d20 to see who decides in what order (like any other timing conflict, say glyphs on lava field).
2) Rannveig is a normal power glyph, so this doesn't actually need new rules. If we don't do new rules, at least one symmetrical glyph might be neat. Heck, it would probably be neat with new rules, too.
3) Since glyphs naturally have a face-up/face-down orientation, there's no need to get the markers involved. Just flip the glyph itself.
4/5) I prefer before OMs. Which glyphs are/n't active may have some influence on where you want your OMs.
6) This is basically just Treasure glyphs, IMO. We already have Belt of Giant Strength and more that are one-time effects.
1) I agree that involving the X OM with glyphs is probably a bit too complex for what we want here.

2) I'm not sure that I see the correlation between using AotP's markers and Rannveig, unless it's some kind of trigger that flips each time that a figure enters that space? I'm probably missing something here, but I don't see an immediate need for using markers for the glyphs.

3) I agree, and this sort of idea is actually pretty intriguing to me... Say, for example, that we expand that "Inverse Glyph" idea from earlier:
INVERSE GLYPHS
Inverse Glyphs have an "active side" with their name and symbol and an "inactive side" with the Inverse Glyph symbol on their back. While an Inverse Glyph is active, it grants the powers for that glyph <outlined below>. While that Inverse Glyph is inactive, there are no special benefits for that space.

At the beginning of each round, flip every Inverse Glyph on the battlefield so that the opposite side is now revealed. Scenarios will tell you what side to place each Inverse Glyph on to begin the game, or you can start them on any side when designing your own battlefields.
I think that this idea actually has a lot of potential. The glyphs are quite a bit weaker this way since they are only active half of the time and no longer powerful passive bonuses for the duration that they're held, but this has the potential to foster a pretty interesting tempo depending on how maps are designed. The added bit of dynamism to games could really help spice up the flat pieces of cardboard, too.

I also think that the alternating structure is a bit easier of a rule to remember than being able to secretly look at what glyphs you're holding or deciding when to flip them over. Any other thoughts on the matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
One thing to note is we'd have to rework the OM-peeking and Reviving glyphs.
I think that we have to be willing to rework them a bit if we want to make a more substantial mechanical tweak to glyphs for sure. These ideas don't gel super well with temporary glyphs in any case, unless we wanted them to only be activable when the glyphs are power-side-up.
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  #33  
Old July 3rd, 2021, 08:49 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

Rannveig has nothing to do with tokens. Those were two separate things. It was just pointing out that there is already a power glyph with a symmetrical effect, so symmetrical effects in and of themselves don't require a new glyph type/rule set.

I could see the forced flip every round being interesting as well. Certainly puts pressure on the map designer to figure out which glyph(s) to use and which side to start with, though.

We might not actually have to do much redesigning at all if they can only be activated while face up.


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  #34  
Old July 3rd, 2021, 11:30 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

Ah, I see. Yeah, glyphs like Rannveig and VC's Frosa establish board-wide effects well IMO. The concept could be tweaked further of course, but I agree that symmetrical board effects can be fulfilled by further power glyphs.

I actually think that the added personality of the forced-flip glyphs would help the AotV-only boards a lot by giving them a greater sense of personality, though it's definitely more work for the map designers. The AotV boards shouldn't take as much time due to the limited amount of terrain that we have to work with, but RotV and other classic-mixed maps will require experimentation and creativity. I'm fine with that so long as the results are worth it.
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