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C3V Public Playtesting Forum for discussion of C3V public playtests. Only C3V members can create new threads, but all others can post to those threads.


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  #13  
Old May 27th, 2021, 02:48 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

You roll for Swallow Whole before the wounds are inflicted.
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  #14  
Old May 27th, 2021, 02:55 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

We should put that on the card right before it says you can roll a d20. "defense dice against a normal or special attack from Gräbermund, before you place any wounds, you may roll the 20-sided die." it can see the discussion happening enough that we should make it clear. If I go 4 skulls on Heracles and he whiffs, I would rather only have to roll a 16 or higher. I am fine with it being before wounds, just think it should be spelled out.

What GenCon taught me was to assume only one skull on three dice!
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  #15  
Old May 27th, 2021, 03:49 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

The rationale is that it is triggered by rolling the dice. Rolling the dice happens before wounds are placed, obviously.

Anyway, we generally try to avoid adding a bunch of otherwise unnecessary wording to cover corner cases like this. This is the sort of thing we would generally handle with a R&C. But I'll bring it back to the others to discuss making it explicit in the text. It would come up in a few other cases, most notably Cell Divide.

Of course this power has already changed a few times so who knows if it will have this timing in the final version anyway.
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  #16  
Old May 27th, 2021, 06:49 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Agreed! He was certainly fun to play!!

What GenCon taught me was to assume only one skull on three dice!
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  #17  
Old May 28th, 2021, 11:29 AM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Map: Honor by Flash_19 with Wannok glyph

Army 1: Grabermund, 4x children of the dark star, Sentinels of Grax

Army 2: Ataraxis, 4x Zombies, Iskra, Rechets

Which units survived? 1 Rechet, Iskra (1 life), 3 Zombies, Ataraxis (3 life)

Early Game
First of all, I’ll say that I think I completely misplayed this army. I’ll chalk it up to my complete inexperience with these units except for the Sentinels. Anyways, I spent the first two rounds splitting OMs between Grabermund and the Children. The extra activations the children get from Grabermund OMs really helped to get them in position quickly. And of course, the Clamber power makes a big difference for Grabermund allowing him to get into good positions quickly as well. After massing my army on the western snow elevation I decided to charge in with Grabermund. Muskie had spent his early OMs positioning Ataraxis in a great spot with Zombies massed around her.

Mid Game
My plan with Grabermund was to target Zombies exclusively. I figured that he might be able to take out several squads on his own which would put me in good position for the Children to come in and clean up the rest. Grabermund's four attacks per turn is great particularly with the flexibility of targeting the same figure more than once. I also didn’t realize just how often Swallow would activate. Turns out it’s really hard to roll ‘excess’ shields even against two attack. There were a couple of occasions where I blanked my attack roll but Muskie blanked his defense roll so Swallow ended up activating. Overall, Grabermund went 3/9 on the Swallow and ended up killing 7 Zombies IIRC. I completely underestimated how powerful Ataraxis’ ability to reduce Gabermund’s defense by 1 would be. With him only rolling 2 defense die he fell quicker than I had hoped. It didn’t help that Muskie summoned the Rechets on his first try. Because I had held back the Children I wasn’t able to spend their dead bodies to re-roll for Swallow often. In fact, that only triggered once and I missed the Swallow. After Graberumund died I brought in the Children, but by this time Muskie had done his usual masterful job of controlling key choke points on the board and I had absolutely no chance of getting to Ataraxis. With Ataraxis consistently subtracting defense die from the Children they were fighting an uphill battle against regenerating Zombies and the Rechets.

End Game
It’s not very relevant to the playtesting figures, so I won’t say much here, but the Sentinels finally activated in the end game. They forgot to bring their attack dice though. I think I went 4/30 skulls on Sentinel attacks. Needless to say, that wasn’t enough to pull out the win.

Other Thoughts
I absolutely loved playing Grabermund. The miniature is super cool, all of his powers are really thematic and fit the figure perfectly, rolling four attacks per turn is fun, and then you also get to roll the d20 a bunch. What’s not to love? I’ll reiterate here that I really didn’t play this army the way it was probably designed to be played. I should’ve led with Children followed by Grabermund later or at least I should have been splitting OMs between them in order to maximize the synergy.

The only critique I would mention is that I don’t see a lot of flexibility for Grabermund builds. In the 500 pt range, I think you would have to run him with the Children and that’s about it. My first impression is that in his current iteration he’s not going to be much of a stand alone hero in most formats. Because I love this miniature and design so much, I’d love to see him end up being a competitive figure. With that in mind, I’d suggest some slight buff for him e.g. 10pts cheaper or 1 more life or 12 instead of 13 for Swallow or even 5 for his normal attack value instead of 4.
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  #18  
Old July 3rd, 2021, 01:47 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Map: Marshall Law



Army 1: 
Grabermund

Z’thoth

Children of the dark star x3

Army 2: 
Ataraxis

Iskra
Rechets of Bogdan
Skeletons of Annellintia x2

Remaining figures
2 life Ataraxis
2 skeletons
Full life Isrka 

unsummoned rechets


Really enjoyed both play tested figures. Grabermund was incredibly fun to play, albeit a bit challenging to play correctly.



There were some really high moments in this game for the outsider faction! 



Grabermund is a squad slayer! He was killing on average multiple squad figures per turn. The unfortunate thing was I thought Swallow Whole would counter the Necromancy ability of the Skeletons. However, this is not the case and they were able to keep coming back.



Using the outsider heroes has been interesting. I think Grabermund relies on the children a bit more than Z’thoth. He requires a decent screen and the reduced defense the Children of the Dark Star inflict is incredibly helpful for Grabermund.



Biggest issue in this game was the reduced defense that Ataraxis inflicted on Grabermund and the Children. Even Z’thoth fell pray to a few big swings from skeletons backed by Ataraxis. It did not take too Many attacks from the opponent to get through Grabermund’s 7 life. In fact, it only took 6 attacks from skeletons to finish him off. Grabermund rolled a whopping 3/13 defense dice in this matchup. All of those being affected by Ataraxis’s terror field. 



Offensively, he is a force to be reckoned with. One highlight was when he swallowed 3 skeletons in the same turn! One of those rolls was given a redo thanks to a previously destroyed Child. He used swallow whole 10 times and hit it 6 times. (One successful attempt was due to a re-roll from the children.) Sometimes I would forget to roll for swallow if I had already killed the figure with my attack dice. 



Clamber is a good ability for him.

Overall thoughts of this figure. I say it is well-balanced and he can earn his points easily (less easily if he does not have the children)! He is definitely not the most competitive figure in the game. He could be significantly better with one more defense die… But is that too much? I like the high-variance abilities. Rolling for attack 4 times and rolling for Swallow 4 times is really quite fun and thematic. I am growing increasingly excited for this Outsiders faction. I need to find a way to play them all a little more synergistically. I feel like I neglected Z’thoth until Grabermund was destroyed already.
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  #19  
Old July 10th, 2021, 07:09 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Just realized I was still logged into my temp account I used to recover the old one, will update with the proper account here in a second, and let this one die
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  #20  
Old July 10th, 2021, 07:12 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

EDIT: Updated with images.



Here we go, take two!

It’s been a while since I’ve popped into the forum, but I knew I had to give this guy a try the second I saw him! The mini and theme is just so great, and I love the Outsider’s he designed to play with. I proxied all three units, but I think I got pretty close!



Map: Shadows of Bleakwood (heroscaper2010)

Army 1: 490 points
Grabermund = Tor-Kul-Na
Children of the Darkstar x3 = Greenscale Warriors
Agga-Zemir = Charos

Army 2: 500 points
Marcus
Roman Legionnaires x3
Roman Archers x2
Master of the Hunt (MotH)

Miniatures Left: 2 Legionnaires and 1 Archer





I’ve used Children +X to show how many Children activate due to Sign of the Outer Gods.

Spoiler Alert!


Final thoughts: Grabermund is a ton of fun, his special didn’t come into play as much as I though, but man it added a nice sucker punch when it came through. He managed to kill almost exactly his points worth, but I can attribute that success to my friend’s terrible decision to put so many OM on an almost dead MotH. The second people started hitting back, he went down pretty fast,. I really enjoyed the order marker shuffle to coordinate with the Children and Agga, it made for some agonizing decisions in between rounds.

In conclusion, I really liked him, but the only reason he accomplished so much is because my friend is a goober

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My repaint thread (all my links are dead )
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Last edited by orgsbane; July 11th, 2021 at 12:27 PM.
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  #21  
Old July 10th, 2021, 11:19 PM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by orgsbane View Post
Here we go, take two!

It’s been a while since I’ve popped into the forum, but I knew I had to give this guy a try the second I saw him! The mini and theme is just so great, and I love the Outsider’s he designed to play with. I proxied all three units, but I think I got pretty close!



Map: Shadows of Bleakwood (heroscaper2010)
Good to see you around the forums again! Hope you’ll be able to continue to be active!

My Maps
Tournament Record: 28-28: .500!
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  #22  
Old July 11th, 2021, 12:15 AM
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Re: Gräbermund Public Playtesting

Absolutely, expect some more battle reports from me in the future, and I’ll be lurking around in the other forums as well! It’s good to be back

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Good to see you around the forums again! Hope you’ll be able to continue to be active!

I'll repaint your 'scape (but not right now)
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=47793

My repaint thread (all my links are dead )
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...92#post1764692
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