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  #85  
Old April 1st, 2021, 11:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
I love elves.

No really, I do. I think I brought some elves to Islandscape 2019 even, and I use elf pods every chance I get in friendly games. I like to think I've pretty well mastered how to use elf pods by now, and I have even found ways to make morsbane a fairly solid pick throughout the game, depending on my opponent's drafts.

But Acolarh? I mean... He just looks so damn cool. And he is such a collectible piece these days that I do badly want him. But I cannot, for the life of, think of any situation in any game that would inspire me to draft him over other elves.

He is a support unit, sure. Useless on offense, pretty useless in a defensive screen, but can sit out of the trouble with ulginesh and keep some folks alive a little longer maybe.

But really? 110 points? In the normal 500-600 point game, I have a hard enough time picking between Johrdawn or Chardris sometimes. In what scenario would this wizard be more useful than 2x WOA wall, or Morsbane for deterring certain figures, or heck even syvarris despite his lack of much synergy.

If I dump my typical WoA screen for this guy, then I have few chances to even roll for his aura--worthless.

If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.

Dumping Arkmer, Ulginish, or my main hitters is obviously out of the question.

I just feel like he has literally no practical use outside of massive 3000 point games where you might as well just draft all the Ullar cards you have lol.

Has anybody actually used this figure over the years, with any amount of luck? He just seems like a badly overpriced figure to my draft and my wallet, just to never be played.

If I ever got him, I think I'd houserule him as a 70 point figure, along with my houserulings of common-squad zettians and common-hero deathwalkers lol
Have you ever used him with 3x Elf archers on height? He gives them a fair chance of avoiding death, I think he's great. A little over priced, sure, he feels like an 85-90 point figure. 70 is too low IMO.

I've used him successfully a few times, although I haven't played him in forever. Him and Hatamoto are my 2 fave flag bearers.

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  #86  
Old April 1st, 2021, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
I love elves.

No really, I do. I think I brought some elves to Islandscape 2019 even, and I use elf pods every chance I get in friendly games. I like to think I've pretty well mastered how to use elf pods by now, and I have even found ways to make morsbane a fairly solid pick throughout the game, depending on my opponent's drafts.

But Acolarh? I mean... He just looks so damn cool. And he is such a collectible piece these days that I do badly want him. But I cannot, for the life of, think of any situation in any game that would inspire me to draft him over other elves.

He is a support unit, sure. Useless on offense, pretty useless in a defensive screen, but can sit out of the trouble with ulginesh and keep some folks alive a little longer maybe.

But really? 110 points? In the normal 500-600 point game, I have a hard enough time picking between Johrdawn or Chardris sometimes. In what scenario would this wizard be more useful than 2x WOA wall, or Morsbane for deterring certain figures, or heck even syvarris despite his lack of much synergy.

If I dump my typical WoA screen for this guy, then I have few chances to even roll for his aura--worthless.

If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.

Dumping Arkmer, Ulginish, or my main hitters is obviously out of the question.

I just feel like he has literally no practical use outside of massive 3000 point games where you might as well just draft all the Ullar cards you have lol.

Has anybody actually used this figure over the years, with any amount of luck? He just seems like a badly overpriced figure to my draft and my wallet, just to never be played.

If I ever got him, I think I'd houserule him as a 70 point figure, along with my houserulings of common-squad zettians and common-hero deathwalkers lol
Have you ever used him with 3x Elf archers on height? He gives them a fair chance of avoiding death, I think he's great. A little over priced, sure, he feels like an 85-90 point figure. 70 is too low IMO.

I've used him successfully a few times, although I haven't played him in forever. Him and Hatamoto are my 2 fave flag bearers.

At that point, I think I'd just want another squad of Aubriens! No seriously, how many will he realistically save in a game, maybe 3? Another squad of Aubriens will accomplish the same thing for much cheaper. Only reason I see to really do this is if you are struggling with starting hex restrictions.

Even raelin would perform this role better for cheaper despite having no real synergy. Then again, raelin is a bit of an unfair comparison, and theme > competitiveness in my opinion, so there's also that lol!
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  #87  
Old April 1st, 2021, 01:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

He probably does just as well as Hatamoto does with dwarves, if not better...

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  #88  
Old April 1st, 2021, 01:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
I love elves.

No really, I do. I think I brought some elves to Islandscape 2019 even, and I use elf pods every chance I get in friendly games. I like to think I've pretty well mastered how to use elf pods by now, and I have even found ways to make morsbane a fairly solid pick throughout the game, depending on my opponent's drafts.

But Acolarh? I mean... He just looks so damn cool. And he is such a collectible piece these days that I do badly want him. But I cannot, for the life of, think of any situation in any game that would inspire me to draft him over other elves.

He is a support unit, sure. Useless on offense, pretty useless in a defensive screen, but can sit out of the trouble with ulginesh and keep some folks alive a little longer maybe.

But really? 110 points? In the normal 500-600 point game, I have a hard enough time picking between Johrdawn or Chardris sometimes. In what scenario would this wizard be more useful than 2x WOA wall, or Morsbane for deterring certain figures, or heck even syvarris despite his lack of much synergy.

If I dump my typical WoA screen for this guy, then I have few chances to even roll for his aura--worthless.

If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.

Dumping Arkmer, Ulginish, or my main hitters is obviously out of the question.

I just feel like he has literally no practical use outside of massive 3000 point games where you might as well just draft all the Ullar cards you have lol.

Has anybody actually used this figure over the years, with any amount of luck? He just seems like a badly overpriced figure to my draft and my wallet, just to never be played.

If I ever got him, I think I'd houserule him as a 70 point figure, along with my houserulings of common-squad zettians and common-hero deathwalkers lol
Have you ever used him with 3x Elf archers on height? He gives them a fair chance of avoiding death, I think he's great. A little over priced, sure, he feels like an 85-90 point figure. 70 is too low IMO.

I've used him successfully a few times, although I haven't played him in forever. Him and Hatamoto are my 2 fave flag bearers.

At that point, I think I'd just want another squad of Aubriens! No seriously, how many will he realistically save in a game, maybe 3? Another squad of Aubriens will accomplish the same thing for much cheaper. Only reason I see to really do this is if you are struggling with starting hex restrictions.

Even raelin would perform this role better for cheaper despite having no real synergy. Then again, raelin is a bit of an unfair comparison, and theme > competitiveness in my opinion, so there's also that lol!
Don't forget about Ullar's Amulet. The extra two move can be the difference between getting T1 shots into the SZ and relying on a Frenzy for it. Further, there's a big difference between saving your Aubriens in advantageous positions and having an extra squad in your starting zone.

At 70, Acolarh wouldn't be horrible with Aubriens. I probably take him over another squad if they're the same points.
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  #89  
Old April 1st, 2021, 09:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.
I used to feel this way, but as vegie points out, Emiroon isnít really necessary to have success with a wizard build.

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  #90  
Old April 1st, 2021, 11:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rˇchean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.
I used to feel this way, but as vegie points out, Emiroon isn’t really necessary to have success with a wizard build.
I gotta make a big disagree there.

In my personal opinion (TM but also open source) Emiroon is the single most important elf beside ulginesh. The most precarious part of playing elves, and the most vital, is setting them up. This. Is. Vital. If your opponent can foil your setup or delay it longer than a few rounds, you're in big trouble. Venoc swarm incoming on round 1? Uh oh, bad news.

The elves are simply not strong. Or good even. BUT, together, if oriented in the right way, on the right hill, in the right place of the map, breaking them can feel like trying to break a walnut's shell with safety scissors (lol idk).

But you NEED to set this up. And that means dumping your order markers on ulginesh, not wasting a single turn on elf squads, and zooming your elves as a pod up to your position of choice. Emiroon is the man for this job. Move him, get him to summon 2 elves up with him, and then move another wizard separately. next turn, move ulginesh himself, rinse and repeat. You might only need to move ulginesh once or twice even because he flies and is pretty speedy.

Now, by the time you get sort of positioned, you'll have gorillinators or death chasers or vipers in your face already. THIS is why I prefer the WoA vastly to the Aubriens. Leave the WoA in the back, safely out of range. When you need them, use emiroon to drop them in a defensive ring around your elf pod. If you have your pod set up right, most of your elves will be raking in defense dice against ranged from height, kyntela, and hopefully something like jungle too. Most of the heavy hitters strong enough to crack the shell are nullified greatly by the WoA screen, and if they do kill one, just immediately have emiroon summon another one in.

If done correctly, there will be a few tense turns where you probably don't have enough WoA up yet and something is smacking your wizards around and you are desperately trying to push them off your defensive position. However, if you do pull this off, your opponent will be forced to basically suicide his remaining melee units against Arkmer and your WoA, or he will have to pick at you with weaker ranged attacks while you throw much stronger ones back in return.

It is tricky. It doesn't always work. But when it does, it's glorious lol.

But if emiroon was gone? Well.... Well then I actually wouldn't know how to play elves in a way that could beat an army of marro drones and microcorps or something. I really feel he is absolutely vital to the elf pod. Emiroon is a sort of glue, and the elf wizards are pletty flimsy figures on their own.
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  #91  
Old April 2nd, 2021, 08:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Just jumping in here, but by the way it sounds vital to set up an elf pod Acolarh can help immensely by being placed in the middle surrounded by the rest of your elves in the start zone to give them that much more move to get into position.

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  #92  
Old April 2nd, 2021, 11:32 AM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rˇchean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomCarrot View Post
If I dump Emiroon for him, then the entire elf stratagem falls apart.
I used to feel this way, but as vegie points out, Emiroon isn’t really necessary to have success with a wizard build.
I gotta make a big disagree there.

In my personal opinion (TM but also open source) Emiroon is the single most important elf beside ulginesh. The most precarious part of playing elves, and the most vital, is setting them up. This. Is. Vital. If your opponent can foil your setup or delay it longer than a few rounds, you're in big trouble. Venoc swarm incoming on round 1? Uh oh, bad news.

The elves are simply not strong. Or good even. BUT, together, if oriented in the right way, on the right hill, in the right place of the map, breaking them can feel like trying to break a walnut's shell with safety scissors (lol idk).

But you NEED to set this up. And that means dumping your order markers on ulginesh, not wasting a single turn on elf squads, and zooming your elves as a pod up to your position of choice. Emiroon is the man for this job. Move him, get him to summon 2 elves up with him, and then move another wizard separately. next turn, move ulginesh himself, rinse and repeat. You might only need to move ulginesh once or twice even because he flies and is pretty speedy.

Now, by the time you get sort of positioned, you'll have gorillinators or death chasers or vipers in your face already. THIS is why I prefer the WoA vastly to the Aubriens. Leave the WoA in the back, safely out of range. When you need them, use emiroon to drop them in a defensive ring around your elf pod. If you have your pod set up right, most of your elves will be raking in defense dice against ranged from height, kyntela, and hopefully something like jungle too. Most of the heavy hitters strong enough to crack the shell are nullified greatly by the WoA screen, and if they do kill one, just immediately have emiroon summon another one in.

If done correctly, there will be a few tense turns where you probably don't have enough WoA up yet and something is smacking your wizards around and you are desperately trying to push them off your defensive position. However, if you do pull this off, your opponent will be forced to basically suicide his remaining melee units against Arkmer and your WoA, or he will have to pick at you with weaker ranged attacks while you throw much stronger ones back in return.

It is tricky. It doesn't always work. But when it does, it's glorious lol.

But if emiroon was gone? Well.... Well then I actually wouldn't know how to play elves in a way that could beat an army of marro drones and microcorps or something. I really feel he is absolutely vital to the elf pod. Emiroon is a sort of glue, and the elf wizards are pletty flimsy figures on their own.
I’m just pointing it out since veggie didn’t specifically say it. He just pointed to his build, which doesn’t include Emiroon. Seeing veggie have success and talking to him, changed my opinion on the necessity of Emiroon to a wizard build.

I’m not saying he’s useless. I’m not saying it’s not fun to get his little summon trick to work. I’m not saying he’s not helpful in a wizard build. He just isn’t required to have success.

I’m sure that @vegietarian18 could illuminate you further on that wizard build and how the 80 points spent on Emiroon is definitely better spent on Raelin.

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Last edited by Rˇchean; April 2nd, 2021 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Too much jibba jabba
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  #93  
Old April 2nd, 2021, 12:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Acolarh

Yep Rˇchean is right. In the very best elf builds I think there's almost no reason to take Emiroon.

The reason for this is really just a product of tournament boards. On pretty much all tournament boards, you can set something up directly outside your startzone and just chill there. There's no point in extending Emiroon out to the center of the board to pull your elf wizards there. Elf wizards are up there with Mimring in terms of sheer damage they can do from very long range; between Jorhdawn 7 range 4 attack AOE and Chardris 6 range 5 attack, you can really put pressure on your opponent. Getting closer to your opponent with Emiroon puts your elves in riskier spots, and you're not spending points on something that actually helps you kill or survive whatever your opponent is throwing at you. If Emiroon did not exist, I'm confident no one would feel the need for the Elves to have a summoning figure.

Raelin is just simply much better. She covers the area right outside your startzone that you're going to be in anyways. Raelin also counterintuitively actually helps heroes slightly more than squads, especially low defense heroes like the Elves. With heroes it's meaningful to be able to turn a 3 skull blow from 2 wounds to only 1, with a squad they would probably die to 3 skulls even with Raelin. Also a massive Achille's heel of the elf wizards is vulnerability to Ulginesh assassination, so turning Ulginesh into a 5 defense 5 life tank helps a ton and allows you to use Kyntela to defend your front line elves.

Where I've actually had the most success with Emiroon is late game, using him defensively to get out of sticky situations, since he can move your Elves very far without them taking LEAs. You can chain together Emiroon move -> Emiroon summon -> take turn with summoned figure (if Ulginesh is still alive) to seriously turn on the gas. He also has the same generic wizard benefits that Acolarh has, where it's just nice to have somebody that can help give Jorhdawn and Chardris all their dice. Emiroon is not as bad as Acolarh, but I'd certainly take Raelin, Chardris, and Morsbane over him in the "optional" slots in an elf build.
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