? about nakita smoke powder 13 special.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Homba

I agree with that. There's no rule or ability text requiring you to stick with the normal attack. Nothing on the Nakitas' card prohibits you from changing to the special attack against a new target. Is there anything in the Hasbro FAQ to contradict this?

H

I believe so. I thought it stated that once you chose a certain form of attack you could not then change to another.

Originally Posted by FAQ

Can I use a Special Attack and a normal attack in the same turn?No. A Special Attack is used instead of a normal attack.

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I thought it stated that once you chose a certain form of attack you could not then change to another.

this is true. but what i'm not sure about is when does an attack actually start. the Nakita card forces a closer look at this.

from the rulebook it looks like the attack begins when you declare that "this figure of mine over here is attacking that figure of yours over there". this is assuming all targeting has been done (and checks out) if it's a ranged attack.

in a more informal setting of play you will see players declare the attack and then go "oh, wait. never mind. i really want to do this attack over here", which is usually allowed.

so i think it really boils down to the first roll of the dice being the point of no return for starting an attack. targeting is not the start of the attack as far as i can tell from the rules.

so here's my question. when exactly does the player controlling the Nakita (or adjacent figures) actually use Smoke Poweder? when the opponent is setting up the attack and checking out line of site? or when the opponent declares the attack? or when the opponent makes his first roll of the attack dice?

[Faartknocker]

Greetings, everyone.

I'm not sure what the controversy is. The Nikita agents roll for smoke powder when an opponent declares that he intends to attack (has targetted) a Nikita Agent -or any figure adjacent to them- with a NORMAL attack. The roll for the smoke powder ability clearly takes place BEFORE attack dice are rolled.

IF the Nikita Agents are successful, then neither the Nikita Agents nor any of the figures adjacent to them that you control have any visible hit zones for the duration of the attacking figure's turn. This, of course, remains true for any subsequent range attack attempts from other squad members. Targeting is clearly not the same as attacking.

The figure that targeted is free to attack any other figures that it can/wishes to attack. Declaring a target is done before rolling for smoke powder which in turn is done before any attacks take place.

One thing to remember, though, is that once you target the Nikita Agents with a normal attack and the Nikita Agents roll successfully for smoke powder, you cannot then attack them (or adjacent units controlled by the opponent who controls the Agents) with a special attack, since they have NO hit zones. Cheers!

[GaryLASQ]

i agree with everything you just said Faartknocker.

i think what Grungebob was bringing up was if the attacking figure(s) has both a normal and special attack and (for whatever reason) targeted Nakitas and said "i'm targeting for a normal attack", could that person switch to using the special attack against something else if Smoke Powder was successful.

i would say "sure, why not?" since the normal attack didn't actually begin yet. the exception would be with something like say Roman Archers, where Archer #1 targeted, got through, attacked with normal attack, failed, Archer #2 targeted, got Smoked, and now has the option to target something else. the normal attack is now well underway for this squad and the Archers can't now switch to their special attack.

if Archer #1 had been Smoked, i don't see why the squad of them couldn't switch to their special attack against something else.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

i agree with everything you just said Faartknocker.

Ditto.

[Homba]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I believe so. I thought it stated that once you chose a certain form of attack you could not then change to another.

Ok. That could be a monkeywrench, but I don't think it is. Here's what I think:

This FAQ quote answers the old question whether (for example) Mimring can both "breathe" (special attack) and "bite" (normal attack) on the same turn. It also may have come up as recently as the Kaemon Awa question ("he may attack one additional time."). You cannot use both a normal and a special attack in the same turn. But is this applicable to the Nakitas?

I don't believe so. Choose vs. Use. Firing at a Nakita, you choose the normal attack & confirm targeting. If Smoke Powder works, you can't target, and still haven't used a normal attack. If you had used the attack, you simply wouldn't be able to switch to a new target (you're only entitled to one attack, not two). We know from the FAQ that you ARE allowed to switch to a new target. Using a special attack on an alternative target doesn't violate the FAQ's basic prohibition against using a normal and a special attack on the same turn. You never used the normal attack - if you had, your turn would already be over.

H

[daevablacc]

Originally Posted by Homba

[If Smoke Powder works, you can't target, and still haven't used a normal attack. If you had used the attack, you simply wouldn't be able to switch to a new target (you're only entitled to one attack, not two). We know from the FAQ that you ARE allowed to switch to a new target. Using a special attack on an alternative target doesn't violate the FAQ's basic prohibition against using a normal and a special attack on the same turn. You never used the normal attack - if you had, your turn would already be over.

H

I agree. I don't think the rules say not to do this nor do the cards. It seems to follows Nether's theory of follow what it says, not what it doesn't say.

[RobWeaver]

Man, those Nakitas re tough! Played a game the other day in which my 1 squad of Aubriens went up against them. I focused all the firepower of the early turns of the game on eliminating those Agents, because of the destruction they can do to your targeting. Long story short, my Aubriens frenzied 4 times in my first turn, and 5 in my second, but it took every one of those turns to eliminate the Nakita Agents. I gotta remember to draft them more often.
Although we played theoretically tht you could target another fig if the smoke powder was successful, the reality was that most of the time if it was, there was no other valid target. I would agree that you can switch from a normal to a special attack if you're able to redirect your attack. The original attack was no longer an option, so you were given the option back again.

[rehlers]

Originally Posted by daevablacc

I agree. I don't think the rules say not to do this nor do the cards. It seems to follows Nether's theory of follow what it says, not what it doesn't say.

Yes, I would say you can do whatever attack you choose if the Nakita smoke screen spoils your first attempt. They are tough enough as is, they don't need any more buffs.

[TheMainMan]

I am so sorry to keep this thread alive, but I am having some confusuion and we made it way harder last night than it should have been.

A Nakita is standing next to guilty, and he is on her team, if someone targets the Nakita, and she successfully smoke bombs, can Guilty be targeted? Or did the smoke powder automatically carry over because he is adjacent?

Again, sorry. I feel like I am beating a dead Dund.

[rehlers]

Originally Posted by Nakita Card

SMOKE POWDER 13 - When any Nikita Agent you control, or any figure you control that is adjacent to any Nikita agent you control, is targeted for a normal attack from a non_adjacent opponent, you may roll the 20_sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, all Nikita Agents you control and all figures you control that are adjacent to those agents, no longer have any visible hit zones for the duration of the targeting figure's turn.

I think this question, thankfully, is answered by the card. It says if you roll a 13 or higher, then all Nakita Agents you control and "all figures you control". So it looks like it specifically calls out only your figures.

[TheMainMan]

Yeah, but it says anyone targeted. So if the Nakita smoke powders herself, does it automatically transfer to Guilty as well, or do you re roll smoke powder for him? Are all figure adjacent to the Nakita that you control automatically smoked?

Sorry. I hate to ask, but we are just no quite clear and in agreement.