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  #37  
Old April 11th, 2009, 07:17 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I built the old version of Jungle Helix (haven't played on it yet but soon!) and noticed the ladders are one level too short so I had to put one-hex tiles underneath them. I did that on all four ladders even though FotA has enough ladder pieces for two of them.
You can do that, but it's a legal layout either way, right? A figure can just climb up the last hex, right?
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  #38  
Old April 11th, 2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

Right but the ladder doesn't actually connect to anything without the hex underneath it.

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  #39  
Old April 12th, 2009, 01:06 AM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Right but the ladder doesn't actually connect to anything without the hex underneath it.
I would just suggest pushing the ladders down, even if that means leaving a gap at the top. Having the 1-hex tiles underneath means that a figure trying to walk beneath the ladder has to spend movement going over the elevation.
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  #40  
Old April 12th, 2009, 01:31 AM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

I guess I wasn't clear. Without anything to connect to, the ladders just fall down. They need the hex tile underneath in order to connect to the castle tile at the top.

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  #41  
Old April 12th, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

Oh, sorry; thanks for the heads-up. Of course, the columns don't have grooves, right. Kind of annoying that they leave you two ladders short of four full ladders.

Anyway, I'd suggest using the two spare rungs for the side ladders, so that it's easier to walk under those. Put 1-hexers under the other two, and I will go back to the drawing board to try to squeeze two more 1-hexers out of the material I'm using.
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  #42  
Old April 12th, 2009, 08:56 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

I updated all three versions (see first post). The ladders should set up fine now. Thanks for the feedback.
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  #43  
Old April 14th, 2009, 05:44 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps)

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
Oh, sorry; thanks for the heads-up. Of course, the columns don't have grooves, right. Kind of annoying that they leave you two ladders short of four full ladders.

Anyway, I'd suggest using the two spare rungs for the side ladders, so that it's easier to walk under those. Put 1-hexers under the other two, and I will go back to the drawing board to try to squeeze two more 1-hexers out of the material I'm using.
A simpler solution just occured to me: I could just arrange things so that one of the sides of the castle column designed to fit into the other columns faced out in the direction of the ladder there. That should allow the ladder to work even if it is a level short, right?
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  #44  
Old April 15th, 2009, 02:07 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

I'm toying with a new arrangement of the columns that adds two more columns to the center section. This is nice from a LOS-blocker perspective, and it makes the central bridge on the elevated platform less of a choke point.

The downside (?), unless I do some redesigning, is that it makes it so that all three central "tunnels" require a single-spaced walker to end three turns in water to get through. Basically, it makes it so that only flyers, Microcorp, and Vipers will go from one side to the other without either going over the top or around the sides.

Maybe this is not a bad thing, as it splits the map into several easily defined zones. If it is a bad thing, but the revised columns are still considered a nice touch, then I could add a 7-hexer in the middle and re-route the river so that it's easier to cross.

I'll try to post two or three alternatives I'm considering tonight.
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  #45  
Old April 17th, 2009, 10:54 AM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

OK, here's the latest version, Jungle Helix 2.1

EDIT: updated to Jungle Helix 2.2.

--

The big change, as I said, was moving two more columns to the middle. The issue with this, which should be obvious if you build it, is that it would have basically cut the middle underpass off for single-spaced walkers, as they would have to slog through three hexes of water.

So, to adjust for this, I re-routed the river in the middle, which meant putting two water hexes on level 1, and replacing two level 0 water hexes with land tiles. Since I had no spare land tiles, this meant re-arranging the 7-hexer and jungle pieces up front to free up another hex of land.

I think the water on level 1 is a bit inelegant, but it's probably worth it to improve the LOS blocking without impacting the abilty to move under the bridge there.

Next thought I have on this map: should I get rid of the battlements? I'm starting to think that the battlements favor whoever establishes range at the top first, and that player probably doesn't need the help.

Last edited by dok; April 18th, 2009 at 12:42 AM.
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  #46  
Old April 17th, 2009, 10:57 AM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
I think the water on level 1 is a bit inelegant, but it's probably worth it to improve the LOS blocking without impacting the abilty to move under the bridge there.

Next thought I have on this map: should I get rid of the battlements? I'm starting to think that the battlements favor whoever establishes range at the top first, and that player probably doesn't need the help.
I haven't played (or even built) any of these yet, but they're on my list of maps to try.

Do you have a spare single hex? If I'm looking at the picture properly, you could put it next to the raised water tile so that all of the water tiles are next to higher land (which I think is the important aesthetic issue with zero-height tiles).

The battlements look good, so I'd be reluctant to remove them all. Maybe you can just take out a few of the more tactically important ones?

Also, I don't think I'm a fan of the trees in the back of the start zone. Maybe keep them in the start zone (so that front is a straight line still) but have them as a bit of cover for the clean-up units?
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  #47  
Old April 17th, 2009, 12:03 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

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Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Do you have a spare single hex? If I'm looking at the picture properly, you could put it next to the raised water tile so that all of the water tiles are next to higher land (which I think is the important aesthetic issue with zero-height tiles).
Spare hexes, eh? You just gave me a little private chuckle. This map uses all the single, double, and triple hexes available, with the exception of the third jungle tree. Every change I've made has involved some creative shuffling to keep under the material limits. I have, I think, four spare 7-hexers and two spare 24-hexers, but those don't help me much.

As far as I can figure, there are two possible ways I could free up one (well, two) more hex(es):
  1. I could try to figure out a stable way to hollow out the base of the stairs. This would involve leaving a single-hex void under a three-hex piece. This doesn't sound very stable to me, intuitively, but I could mess around with it and see if having good cross-linked support above it stabilizes it.
  2. I could remove the grass hexes that sit next to the jungle grass on the bottom left and top right corners of the map. I like these spots as they give someone attempting to flank the platform one more jungle-protected spot, but they're not really critical.
Alternatively, if I don't want the level 1 water, period,
  1. I could just axe the level 1 water hexes. They don't serve any purpose other than making the river appear continuous. The river could wink out for those two hexes. Would this look worse or better than the current setup?
  2. I could just make things the way they were in (the unposted) version 2.0, where the river sticks on its level zero path from previous versions. This means the middle underpass becomes mostly impassible for single-hex figures that don't have flying or water suit or slither. It still has value as a LoS opening, and as a crossing point for double-hexers and vipers. Still, this means that most walking figures pretty much have to go over the top or around the sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
The battlements look good, so I'd be reluctant to remove them all. Maybe you can just take out a few of the more tactically important ones?
I would do that if I had any idea which ones those are. Really, it was just a thought. It's probably something that I will have to test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Also, I don't think I'm a fan of the trees in the back of the start zone. Maybe keep them in the start zone (so that front is a straight line still) but have them as a bit of cover for the clean-up units?
Yeah, that sounds good. I suppose that if I'm going to bother to use them, I should take advantage of them as LOS blockers.
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  #48  
Old April 17th, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Re: dok's maps - The helix series (3 maps) - updated 4/12

Hmm, I like that figures can reasonably efficiently get through and also that the river is continuous. If you can't rustle up another couple of hexes, I guess I'd vote for leaving it as it is.

Looking closer, maybe that whole seven hex can be nudged forward to do the job? I'm not sure.
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