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Old June 15th, 2006, 07:47 PM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
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Gold, Mercenaries, Slaves, Thugs, and more....oh my!

As some of you know, I've been working on a major conversion of D&D miniatures. One of the new mechanics I've been playing with is the concept of gold. I thought it was interesting enough on its own to merit a separate discussion thread.

Please, give me your feedback on this idea.

GOLD would be aquired in any of the following ways...

1. By defeating figures. The player that kills the figure receives one gold token per 25 points of figure cost, rounded up. For example, a Blade Grut costs 10 points (40 for the squad, divided by 4 figures) and would therefore round up to 25 points, giving one gold. Agent Carr would give 4 gold, Jotun 9 gold, Swog Rider 1 gold, Theracus 2 gold, etc.

2. By eliminating a player from the game. When you take someone out, you steal all of their precious saved gold. Spend it while you've got it!

3. By "finding" it on the board. Gold could be scattered around the map, and the first piece that lands on it may pick it up and add it to the player's stash. "Pirates of the Spanish Main" gold works well for this, as it can be flipped over to hide its value.

4. By getting it from a teammate....teammates could trade and share gold as they see fit.

5. By "selling" a glyph. When you land on a glyph, rather than use its power, you could simply choose to sell it. Depending on how you play glyphs, this could be done in a number of ways. You could simply sell it to the bank for a flat rate, without flipping it. You could sell it to the bank for an amount based on what glyph it is....better glyphs give more gold. Or you could auction it to your opponents if you are the type that plays with "pick up the glyph" rules. This could be worked out through private side deals as well.

6. Other side deals.....such as "Here's five gold. Don't attack me next round."

So now you might be saying to yourself "What do I buy with my new gold?"

So far I have these possibilities, and with your help I plan to add more.

1. MERCENARIES: Mercenaries are figures that are not draftable. They are purchased with gold points from a separate drafting area. The Mercs are costed at a 50% markup, rounded up, on the value of gold they would give when killed....so to use the examples from above, if those figures were Mercs it would go down like this: Agent Carr would cost 6 gold, Jotun 14 gold, Swog Rider 2 gold, and Theracus 3 gold.

Mercenaries, like all purchaseables, are bought and placed in your starting area at the end of a round ONLY. Never at the start of a round or during a turn. Once placed, they are treated like any other unit in your army.

At the end of each round, you must pay the salary of all your Mercs. That means paying a fixed price to EACH figure. A figure's salary is the amount it was marked up....so Agent Carr would get paid 2 gold per round, Jotun 5 gold per round, Swog Rider 1 gold per round, and Theracus 1 gold per round. If you can't afford to pay a figure, it deserts and leaves the board immediately. It can then be purchased again later in the game, as usual.

Here's the catch....Mercs do not obtain gold for your stockpile. Ever. They can't pick up gold from the map and they can't get gold by destroying figures. The stingy little buggers keep it all for themselves! What does this mean? It means that if all your regulars are destroyed and you're just left fielding mercs, your days are numbered....with no source of income you are going to have to act very quickly to take out your foes, or your Mercs will walk when the money runs out.

Want another catch? At the end of every round, your opponents have a chance to bid on the services of YOUR Mercs, and thus buy them away from you. So there you are happily paying Roman Legionnaires 1 gold per round, and the jerk across the table offers them 2 gold a round...then another player offers them 3 gold...you can't match that, so they jump ship to the 3 gold immediately. But that poor sap is left having to pay that new elevated salary each and every round or they'll desert him and go back to the market.....fickle little Mercs.

2. SLAVES: Slaves, like Mercs, are purchased at the end of a round and placed in your starting area. The main difference between slaves and mercs is that slaves are a one time cost....once you own them, you never have to pay them a salary, and never need to worry about your opponent hiring them away. Slaves are a bit pricier than Mercs...with a 100% markup, generally.

The main catch to slaves is....if you have, for example, Krug and a bunch of slaves as your only surviving forces, and Krug gets killed, the slaves will immediately jump ship to the opponent that did the killing...so the guy that just beat you gets all your gold and all your slaves....take that! Slaves have no loyalty to you....they're not going to stick around and follow you if you've got nobody left to boss them around. Also, an overseer (any figure you control) must be within 8 spaces of a slave at all times, or else they revolt and leave play.

If your last non-slave figure is killed by something other than an attack, say, by falling into lava, then the slaves simply desert the board....sweet freedom!

Also, if you buy slaves and then decide you want your money back or just don't want them, you can sell them back to the market for half their value. Slaves can collect gold for you and provide no gold to your opponent when killed.

3. THUGS: Thugs are like Mercs in most respects except the following....they are loyal. This means they cannot be bidded away by your opponents. It also means they can collect gold....they can be trusted to hand it over to the boss. Loyal thugs are generally more desireable than Mercs, and are thus more expensive. Does this mean there's no catch to playing Thugs? Of course not....Thugs have their faults just like anything else. If you stop paying Thugs, they leave, just like Mercs....BUT they leave en masse, and cannot be re-hired by you. If you have six thugs and can only afford to pay four, they ALL leave, disgusted but true to each other...a little Thugish family. And they'll never return to your hire, you cheap bastard. Also, while Thugs are generally loyal to you, they do expect certain courtesies....like the money up front. You have to pay them at the START of every round....therefore you can't hope you make some cash during the round to pay them off...they want their money right away.

4. ASSASSINS: Assassins have only one purpose....to kill a single target. You pay a relatively small amount of money for an assassin's services. For that money you get a figure that activates with an extra X marker once per round, with any other marker. The assassin can only attack the figure you hired them to kill, which must be written down on a scrap of paper as proof. If they are used to strike anyone else, you must pay their fee again before rolling to attack. Once you have paid a fee for a target, that target can be attacked as amny times as it takes to kill them. Once all targets are eliminated, the assassin leaves the field, awaiting future hire. Assassins do not collect gold, and a player with only an Assassin left cannot win the game, as this figure is not part of their army....in a game with multiple players, the eliminated player may still move their assassin after they are out of the game....the contract is still in force.

5. BODYGUARDS: Bodyguards bond in much the same way as the classic Anubian Watchdogs custom. When you purchase them they attach to one of your figures and move when he moves. If that figure is killed before the bodyguard, half your money is refunded and the bodyguard leaves play.


As for future purchaseables, I'm open to any ideas. I considered equipment and unit upgrades for those customs that have such things. Maybe healer or revive or other glyphs could be purchased. Maybe spells or special powers? The possiblities are endless.....


Oh, and for those that have asked, the D&D project is still well underway, despite the fact that I have not updated my thread in about 2 weeks....I've just been working out some details on pen and paper. Expect a HUGE update soon. I'm also working on a lead for some good cards, so fingers crossed that will happen here and there.
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Old June 15th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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"a Blade Grut costs 10 points (40 for the squad, divided by 4 figures) and would therefore round up to 25 points, giving one gold."

So killing 1 squad of Orcs (40 points total but 1 gold per orc) gives the same gold as killing 1 Drake (100 points)? Am I understanding this right
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Old June 15th, 2006, 08:51 PM
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Fallen Templar Fallen Templar is offline
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I like this Idea

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Old June 15th, 2006, 09:56 PM
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allskulls allskulls is offline
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I was wondering what to do with all my extra wound markers.

Now to get some gold paint!
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Old June 15th, 2006, 10:27 PM
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That's pretty cool, man. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this.

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Old June 15th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Gambit Gambit is offline
 
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hmm... i like the idea but its kinda flawed.....

i dont post that much

-Utradoug
a warhammer/HS site,im a mod there> www.miniwargames.net/forums
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Old June 15th, 2006, 11:03 PM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit
hmm... i like the idea but its kinda flawed.....
I appreciate all feedback, postitive and negative (especially the negative), but this doesn't really help me at all....can you elaborate? What would you change? Which part do you feel is flawed?
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Old June 15th, 2006, 11:15 PM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
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double post
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Old June 15th, 2006, 11:17 PM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
"a Blade Grut costs 10 points (40 for the squad, divided by 4 figures) and would therefore round up to 25 points, giving one gold."

So killing 1 squad of Orcs (40 points total but 1 gold per orc) gives the same gold as killing 1 Drake (100 points)? Am I understanding this right
Yes, you are, except Drake gives 5 gold....110 rounded up to the nearest 25 equals five gold.

It doesn't work out evenly I know, but I had to make the cheapies worth at least one gold, and I didn't want to make 1 gold point per 10 draft points....I thought that would get out of hand.

So Blade Gruts give 1 gold, and Drake gives 5....Carr, a 100 pointer, gives 4.

If you actually play with this a couple times, it doesn't seem unbalanced...on paper it looks a little wonky.

Originally I rounded DOWN. That sucked....any figure worth less than 25 points was worthless for gold. So I had to make them all worth at least one in order to have the whole mechanic work at all. Then I decided to round up, to be a little more generous....the game got more exciting when more gold was flowing.
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Old June 15th, 2006, 11:39 PM
Gambit Gambit is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit
hmm... i like the idea but its kinda flawed.....
I appreciate all feedback, postitive and negative (especially the negative), but this doesn't really help me at all....can you elaborate? What would you change? Which part do you feel is flawed?
well the biggest problem is the mercs if i was choosing id choose the slaves over the mercs 95% of th time heres a quikly made idae:

make it so you get 1 gold for every 10 point cost, double or triple the base cost of slaves and keep the rest of the prices the same way. this might help but im doing this in a hurry so i might be doing somthing wrong.

i dont post that much

-Utradoug
a warhammer/HS site,im a mod there> www.miniwargames.net/forums
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Old June 16th, 2006, 12:03 AM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
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Just slow down, and take the time to explain what you mean. Nobody needs you to rush, friend.

I can't quite get what you mean, but I think the base cost of slaves is going to be high...at least all the slaves I've made so far are high compared to Mercs.

But you won't always have the option of buying slaves....if your opponent buys them before you you'll have to go for mercs. Or if the store runs out of slaves you'll have to go to mercs. And slaves carry a greater danger of mutiny in the endgame. Mercs can still fight when the rest of your army is down (they just leave when the money runs out) whereas slaves are up and outta there immediately.

1 gold for every 10....hmmm...seems like too much gold. That would mean that Jotun would give 22-23 gold depending on how you want to round the numbers. But maybe. I'd rather do the 25 point base I think....seems to balance out better by evening out some larger groups...as in Kelda, Raelin, Concan, Agent Carr, etc all give the same amount of gold.

Any other input?
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Old June 16th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Jason Jason is offline
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I'd say make it 1 gold for every 2 orcs/vipers/ killed. Currently giving 1 gold per Orc/Viper would discourage people from playing them since my opponent could make alot more gold killing my horde than I could killing his more expensive units
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