Beantown Beatdown V - POST TOURNEY

[Pilgrim]

Congratulations to Cleon, the new Baron of Beantown!

And congrats to my son for winning the 12 and under tourney.

I went 4-1 on the day and came in third. My army was

Sujoah
Spiders x2
4th Regiment x3
Dumatef

I will post game reports later when I've got more time.

[TehFattestNinja]

Good tourney, I placed first in points so that's good right? i ended up 4th due to a loss to pilgrim destroying my win streak in the last round. I have to say though that the strength of schedual scoring is kinda lame because if you get pared with someone round 1 who then goes on to lose every game you're pretty much screwed for the rest of the tourney, also it doesn't represent your performance at all. I had total victories 4 games out of 5. it just seems silly that my opponent from round one's performance in subsequent rounds affects my outcome.

[arp12]

Congrats, Cleon!

TFN, I agree to some extent, though IMO SoS is still a useful scoring system. Optimally, different events have varied scoring systems.

[Darkmage7a]

That tournament was cool. Looking forward to the pictures. I enjoyed playing against glad blast again, Thank's Fil . I also think there's alot of controversy over the scoring system. Everyone seems to have something to say about it in varying degrees. For example Chris and I also figured out that even though we timed out with a close score and he won. If I decided to conceed that game and give him total points his better standing could have dragged my standing up higher as well, even though I would actually have lost by a lot more.

Yea I know that sounds confusing but I hope you can make sense of it. I think ollie or bengi can explain it better. Or at least confirm or deny that theory by explaining how that works in more detail.

All in All it was a great day. Cheers for the Kids tourney too!

[Monkeyclops]

Great Tourney, thanks Pilgrim!

Originally Posted by TehFattestNinja

Good tourney, I placed first in points so that's good right? i ended up 4th due to a loss to pilgrim destroying my win streak in the last round. I have to say though that the strength of schedual scoring is kinda lame because if you get pared with someone round 1 who then goes on to lose every game you're pretty much screwed for the rest of the tourney, also it doesn't represent your performance at all. I had total victories 4 games out of 5. it just seems silly that my opponent from round one's performance in subsequent rounds affects my outcome.

Issue is, the opposite side of that argument is, you play a weaker army in the beginning making it easier for you to score top points. So why should you end higher on the final standings to someone who also went 4 and 1, but had to beat 4 tougher armies. The person who had the tougher road to get to the same spot should take the higher seed. If you want a higher seed you should win all 5 of your games

Originally Posted by Darkmage7a

For example Chris and I also figured out that even though we timed out with a close score and he won. If I decided to conceed that game and give him total points his better standing could have dragged my standing up higher as well, even though I would actually have lost by a lot more.

Actually it would not have helped you. I thought this initially too after the last tourney, but after looking at it I don't think it matters how much you win or lose by. From my understanding the SoS number is the number of wins of your opponents. So if you played someone who won 4 games they add 4 to your SoS. It does not matter if they won all 4 games 515 to 10 or if they won all 4 300 to 290. Only the "W" counts towards your SoS.

EDIT: I'll post full battle reports of my 5 battles like I did after the BatB soon!

[RobertDD]

Great tournament. Congrats Cleon! I went 3 wins to 2 losses this time, but I lost vs Cleon and Killdawabit, and both ended up pretty close to the top. Lots of bad luck in the games I lost, and good luck in the games I won. Weird how at a tournaent no game ever seems to follow the rule of averages with die rolls for me.

Originally Posted by TehFattestNinja

I have to say though that the strength of schedual scoring is kinda lame because if you get pared with someone round 1 who then goes on to lose every game you're pretty much screwed for the rest of the tourney, also it doesn't represent your performance at all. I had total victories 4 games out of 5. it just seems silly that my opponent from round one's performance in subsequent rounds affects my outcome.

Yeah, there are some drawbacks and good things to be said for every scoring system. There's a lot of debate on them. SOS isn't so bad, IMHO, but different tournaments use different tie braker methods, and you're going to like some better than others....

[Darkmage7a]

What is the easiest way to get a complete record of all the armies used and their standings? I think it would be kind of neat to have a list of the armies used in the tournaments we run. That way when a similar point tourney comes around people can scan though for ideas. I don't mean a thread where everything exist in scattered entries across multiple pages. Just a simple list. Or does something like this already exist?
If so would anyone mind posting the link? Thanks.

[Shades fan]

Just got home after having dinner! I'll post for tomorrow since i'm pretty tired now!

I also agree with Ninja of the SoS and have for a long time!

Off to talk to Bistro!

[Darkmage7a]

Also, I am happy to report that I successfully eliminated every Q9 that I encountered today. Ah...I feel accomplished!

[Shades fan]

Look whose got a new title!

[TehFattestNinja]

Originally Posted by Monkeyclops

Great Tourney, thanks Pilgrim!

Issue is, the opposite side of that argument is, you play a weaker army in the beginning making it easier for you to score top points. So why should you end higher on the final standings to someone who also went 4 and 1, but had to beat 4 tougher armies. The person who had the tougher road to get to the same spot should take the higher seed. If you want a higher seed you should win all 5 of your games

Right but i feel like you shouldn't be penalized for who you're paired against, I'm not saying cleon didn't win it Props to him i wish i could have pulled that 5th victory but my dice rolling ability dropped that game. all i'm saying is with Sos you are punished based on someone elses stuff . pretty much once you play someone who has a bad day or didn't chose a great army you loose points based on nothing that is your fault, If i'm not mistaken we were paired up based on wins/losses and then with someone with the closest score, so when I play that opponent we are on basically even ground, all the maps were simetrical (basically) we had the same point values and the same opportunity to get glyphs. So it just doesn't make much sense that because you win a match against someone who loses a few more times your win is devalued when everyone had the same rules and opportunity to win. I'm not trying to be a D i've never played with sos before and it doesn't seem very fair. a few of my matches were very close yet it seems like the argument for sos was that i was basically given a pass by playing armies that didn't place in the top 5.
,

[Onacara]

I am finally home after a long but enjoyable day.

Thanks again to Pilgrim for hosting all of us and being such a great guy...it makes the getting up at 4:30 and driving 8 plus hours round trip worth it. Put us down for next year.

Its always great seeing folks again and meeting new ones even though I seem to keep playing the same people I play in every other tournmanet. Guess I have to wait another year to finally get to play Ninja and Jim.

Congrats to Cleon...and you are welcome

I went 4-1 with my 4 Dumutef Guard army with my only loss against Cleon (again you are welcome) Cleon is a great player but I think I could have taken him had it not been for the split start zone map we played on. I played on 2 split start zone maps and didn't like either but Can't See the Forest... was the better of the 2 and not just because I won on that one.

My big problem with split start zones is that the dont work for all army builds. Now if you had all split start zone maps of an event thts a hos of a different color.

I will chime in my 2 cents on the SoS debate....I HATE SoS. Ollie and I have discussed it on several occasions and have actually seen its major flaw first hand. We had 32 players today which in a 5 round event is perfect because you will end up with only 1 person able to go undefeated, However when you have less than that you can actually have a 5th round matchup where they guy who loses can ac tually beat the guy who beat them in the tournament based on SoS being the tie-breaker. That just doesn't make sense. The first round match-ups are totally random no matter what the ranking criteria the event is using for subsequent rounds so you inevitaby are going to have scenarios, like today where a seasoned tourney player is going to get matched up with an absolute beginer and as Ninja pointed out, could screw you for the rest of the event. I am not ebven 100% sure that if SoS was counted from the 2nd round on (when you are matched up based on same record) would make it any better.

Ollie, nyys, myself and others have discussed stadardized scoring for NESA events and have come to the conclusion that the TDs should have the freedom to score the event as they see fit. We do not want to dictate too much. I have been talking to my sister who is a programmer about the possibility of creating a TD program that can allow the TD to choose hei scoring parameers while still collecting thedata for NERV scoring as well as NESA Cup scoring but this would not be available for awhile


Ok battle reports tomorrow....