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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old April 9th, 2017, 06:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Are you sure he shouldn't have Olympian Fortitude? That's really my only question here.
I don't know if we want to draw a distinction or not, but both Hercules and Pluto are Marvel Olympians, where this is the DC Ares.

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  #38  
Old April 9th, 2017, 06:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

Event Hero status gives him slightly-worse Olympian Fortitude anyway.
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  #39  
Old April 9th, 2017, 07:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Event Hero status gives him slightly-worse Olympian Fortitude anyway.
This is true. It's the difference of 2 wounds. Not really worth taking up more room on the card or dropping anything else in its favor, IMO. The card represents the character as-is, and is unique in the way it plays, so I'm more than satisfied with it going forward into testing.
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  #40  
Old April 9th, 2017, 07:11 PM
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How Am I Supposed To Breathe With No Ares

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Competitive Concerns
Does the design offer worrisome Order marker movement or efficiency? God of War provides you a watered down Oracle power. Not too concerning.

Does the design offer superior Auto wounding? No.

Does the design cause the prevention of abilities (Blob, Polaris, Meteorite)? Stops disengage and does create a Blobesque situation (although you aren't always forced onto low ground). Also means that you will often be forced to make attacks you don't want to. 6 spaces is kind of a lot. That means he can affect up to 117 spaces around him. That's...large.

Does the design move other figures? No.

Does the design boost other figures (outside of a narrowly defined set)? Yes. Granted it's not easy to get the +1 boost, but -1 defense in some cases is at least as good.

Does the design have one or more excellent defensive powers? Healing with God of War.

Does the design auto destroy or take control of other figures in a way that unbalances the design? No.

Does the design have any other concerns? Beefy stats + healing equals a pain to kill. Huge range on that aura.

Summary of Any Competitive Concerns/Suggestions for Changes:
I'd be tempted to gum up the board with civilians or something and then use people like Deadshot, Merlyn, and Cable to rain down fire on the people's who are stuck in engagements. Not sure it's a viable strategy, but I could see it being annoying to play against. (Unrevealed figure could be more annoying than civilians depending on where that ends up.)

I may think of other ways to abuse this, but for right now, that's all I've got.
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  #41  
Old April 9th, 2017, 07:25 PM
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Re: How Am I Supposed To Breathe With No Ares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST
Solid thoughts. I'd say the +1 attack -1 defense boost affecting figures on both sides of the field makes it a bit different. Everyone on the field is getting the +1 attack and -1 defense, so it helps/hurts you and your opponent all the same, thus cancels it out.

Yeah, the Aura is quite large when you look at it in that way. I could see it going down to . I wouldn't want to nerf it too much, as it should feel effective, but I'd ultimately be fine with 4 spaces. Actually, that makes more sense as his Range is 4, so it helps the player remember the Aura/Range easier.

1 wound healed per figure destroyed shouldn't be too much in terms of keeping him alive. Especially as his defense drops per War Marker, he'll be down to 4 at max. Even with 9 life, when you're rolling 4 defense he could be taken out in a round if the kills aren't coming.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm mainly just trying to refine things before going into Initials, so that way it's less time wasted on repeat testing just to find those problematic areas. I'd rather nip them in the bud right away. So I'll make that change now.

Last edited by Arkham; April 9th, 2017 at 07:45 PM.
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  #42  
Old April 9th, 2017, 08:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

I figure'd I'd run a test with this version, ahead of any vote for Initials, to give an idea how it performs in practice.

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Ares(550), Oracle(110), Beast Boy(Cheetah)(20), Bob Agent of Hydra(25), Liz Sherman(180), Skrull Infiltrator(10) Civilians x 2(90), Bodyguard(15)
(1,000)

vs.
Fantastic Four(1,000)
Spoiler Alert!


Definitely a matchup that likely favors the Fantastic Four with their multiple turns and possible multiple attacks. Mr. Fantastic locking down Ares also stunts his potential. So overall, I'm sure he can perform better than this, but I tried packing his team with the cheapest Unique Heroes and Squads to really make use of the kamikaze method we've discussed. It was quite fun blasting your own units for markers, I actually enjoyed that. However, his staying power just isn't there once the heat is on him and he was actually ousted rather quickly with only 4 defense and boosting those who are attacking him with a +1 attack.
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  #43  
Old April 9th, 2017, 09:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

While I understand the mechanical value of the current ordering for War Marker bonuses, I think the original progression makes more sense.

+1 Attack (I'm violent and angry, making me a stronger fighter.)
-1 Defense (I'm more violent and angry, making me lose focus on my own safety.)
Cannot Leave Engagements (I'm incredibly violent and angry, making me so focused on hurting others that I can't stop fighting.)
Must Attack (I'm so unbearably violent and angry that I can't resist hurting others.)

The current lineup is, again, probably a better value proposition for the player, but I really liked the visceral reaction I had to the original version. Very bloody. Very Ares.

I would name the second power "COMBAT'S EBB" or something like that.

Overall I think the direction is cool, and warrants Event Hero status, which is something that's important.
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  #44  
Old April 9th, 2017, 09:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

Yeah I'm fine with the ordering either way. I agree though that it makes more logical sense in terms of natural progression, I believe that's why I originally ordered it as such. You want to harm your opponent more, you stop focusing on defense, you can't walk away from the fight, you seek fights with anyone and everyone near you, including your own allies.
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  #45  
Old April 9th, 2017, 10:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

I will say there seems to be an issue with the design as is. If you look at that test result, which is the same result I had when I tested the design that's in the SP, Ares' team got steam rolled and Ares himself was taken out quickly. So I'm not sure how to combat that, but I feel something about the design on paper has people thinking he's a big bad dude, but in practice he's not so tough. Perhaps the -1 defense per War Marker is too much for him to keep up with, and it's best to put him at a static 6 defense or something.

Of course, we'll need to see him go up against those that can't do so many attacks per Order Marker, as the FF are probably a natural counter to his strengths all things considered.

With that said, I'm thinking of changing the ordering back to what it was originally. Not only does it make more sense, it's actually helping delay the early lockdown strategy with Squads.
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  #46  
Old April 9th, 2017, 10:28 PM
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Thoughts

I'm suggesting pairing him up with people who will really enjoy his other bonuses and fire from range and then give lots of stuff to gum up the works and use Ares as a support figure away from the front lines and see what that produces.

~Dysole, who knows her brief interaction with dok indicated that he echoed some of her concerns
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  #47  
Old April 10th, 2017, 12:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Breathing)

Alright, I took your strategy and tried it out. This Ares was the one with an Aura of 4, 3 markers, and the order of +1 attack, -1 defense, then lockdown/forced attack.

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Ares(550), Merlyn(160), Green Arrow(150), Civilians x 2(90), Beast Boy Cheetah(20), Bob Agent of Hydra(25)
(995)

vs.
Luke Cage(190), Spider-Man(250), Wolverine(280), Firestar(120), Swordsman(160) (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!


Ultimately, it was a better showing, but still not up to his point value, nor did anything that sparked concern happen. I do like the Civilian team up with Ares. Very thematic for him to have Civilians on the fritz going nuts, engaging heroes and attacking them. It certainly feels like Ares when you play him, except for one aspect. He feels like paper once his markers are on. It may be worth considering ditching the defense reduction per war marker aspect as it's what's lowering his value considerably, and may not be entirely thematic for him to become as vulnerable as Catwoman when he's supposed to be getting stronger with each character death.

It's such a unique dynamic playing him. Everything is for him. Throwing your own figures to their death and using them merely as a means for violence and bloodshed to aid Ares is certainly fun.

Last edited by Arkham; April 10th, 2017 at 12:31 AM.
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  #48  
Old April 10th, 2017, 08:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Ares (Design Phase)

Sorry I'm late to the party here, had a really busy weekend. I'm liking the general direction here.

Is the healing aspect really need though? I know he's not showing strong right now, but I don't think that part is needed and it adds to an already stuffed power. Plus, healing on a figure with high Life and decent defense gets super annoying.

Also, for Combat's Ebb, I think you want wording more like "if no figure received one or more wounds." Right now, it'll trigger almost every turn by a literal reading as almost every turn has at least one figure that doesn't receive a wound.

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