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  #157  
Old April 7th, 2017, 05:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Moving a few things around, maybe something more like this? Current one's mostly fine, but it does have a few things that don't quite line up with the comics.

Quote:
Years after Hank Pym hung up his Ant-Man suit for good, former petty crook Scott Lang stole the suit from Pym's home. Rather than using it for profit, Scott used its powers to save his daughter Cassie, and put an end to the schemes of Darren Cross, a ruthless industrialist and would-be supervillain. Scott impressed Pym enough that he was allowed to keep the suit, and he became the second Ant-Man. As Ant-Man, Scott has worked with the Avengers, striving always to be someone his daughter could be proud of.
You could probably also swap out the line "has worked with the Avengers" for something a little stronger. That makes it sound like he was a receptionist at Avengers tower and he's puffing up his work experience on his resume.

You can also get rid of the Classic/Marvel/C3G breakdowns in the synergy sections. We just do one section each for Benefits Offered and Benefits Received now.
Thanks, done. Honestly, I usually write better than that, but here it just felt like a chore that needed doing.
How about "has been a member of the Avengers", or "is a frequent member of the Avengers" ?

I'd go with the later, since when paired with "striving always to be someone his daughter could be proud of" it implies an ongoing journey to be the best he can be. The "has been a member" version leads the reader to think that he was once an avenger, then he tried to be a better person.
I changed it to the first one already, but I'm changing it to the second one now.


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  #158  
Old April 7th, 2017, 07:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

Just @johnny139 to go!


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  #159  
Old April 7th, 2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Moving a few things around, maybe something more like this? Current one's mostly fine, but it does have a few things that don't quite line up with the comics.

Quote:
Years after Hank Pym hung up his Ant-Man suit for good, former petty crook Scott Lang stole the suit from Pym's home. Rather than using it for profit, Scott used its powers to save his daughter Cassie, and put an end to the schemes of Darren Cross, a ruthless industrialist and would-be supervillain. Scott impressed Pym enough that he was allowed to keep the suit, and he became the second Ant-Man. As Ant-Man, Scott has worked with the Avengers, striving always to be someone his daughter could be proud of.
You could probably also swap out the line "has worked with the Avengers" for something a little stronger. That makes it sound like he was a receptionist at Avengers tower and he's puffing up his work experience on his resume.

You can also get rid of the Classic/Marvel/C3G breakdowns in the synergy sections. We just do one section each for Benefits Offered and Benefits Received now.
Thanks, done. Honestly, I usually write better than that, but here it just felt like a chore that needed doing.
How about "has been a member of the Avengers", or "is a frequent member of the Avengers" ?

I'd go with the later, since when paired with "striving always to be someone his daughter could be proud of" it implies an ongoing journey to be the best he can be. The "has been a member" version leads the reader to think that he was once an avenger, then he tried to be a better person.
Good thinking.

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  #160  
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Wording suggestions:

Quote:
AMATEUR INSECT CONTROL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Ant-Man, you may first take a turn with an Insect Hero you control.

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny subtractroll 2 from their attackfewer dice when attacking Ant-Man with a normal attack, to a minimum of 1 die, and subtractroll 2 from their defense fewer dice when attacked by Ant-Man's with an adjacent normal attack.

TINY THIEF
Ant-Man cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight, can move through all figures, and only takes leaving engagement attacks from Tiny figures. Ant-Man never takes falling damage and may ignore his height of 2 when climbing. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Ant-Man moved through this turn with at least one Equipment Glyph on its card and place a glyph from that card on this card.
Pastability:

Quote:
AMATEUR INSECT CONTROL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Ant-Man, you may first take a turn with an Insect Hero you control.

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny roll 2 fewer dice when attacking Ant-Man with a normal attack, to a minimum of 1 die, and roll 2 fewer dice when attacked by Ant-Man's normal attack.

TINY THIEF
Ant-Man cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight, can move through all figures, and only takes leaving engagement attacks from Tiny figures. Ant-Man never takes falling damage and may ignore his height of 2 when climbing. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Ant-Man moved through this turn with at least one Equipment Glyph on its card and place a glyph from that card on this card.
A couple of thoughts though:
1) I know it would be a mechanical change, but the wording on Small but Mighty could be cleaned up a bit if we allowed the "to a minimum of 1" to apply to the defense subtraction as well.
2) Tiny Thief has a lot going on for one power; what about splitting the Tiny Stealth bit back out into Tiny Stealth and just let him have four powers?

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  #161  
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Wording suggestions:

Quote:
AMATEUR INSECT CONTROL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Ant-Man, you may first take a turn with an Insect Hero you control.

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny subtractroll 2 from their attackfewer dice when attacking Ant-Man with a normal attack, to a minimum of 1 die, and subtractroll 2 from their defense fewer dice when attacked by Ant-Man's with an adjacent normal attack.

TINY THIEF
Ant-Man cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight, can move through all figures, and only takes leaving engagement attacks from Tiny figures. Ant-Man never takes falling damage and may ignore his height of 2 when climbing. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Ant-Man moved through this turn with at least one Equipment Glyph on its card and place a glyph from that card on this card.
Pastability:

Quote:
AMATEUR INSECT CONTROL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Ant-Man, you may first take a turn with an Insect Hero you control.

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny roll 2 fewer dice when attacking Ant-Man with a normal attack, to a minimum of 1 die, and roll 2 fewer dice when attacked by Ant-Man's normal attack.

TINY THIEF
Ant-Man cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight, can move through all figures, and only takes leaving engagement attacks from Tiny figures. Ant-Man never takes falling damage and may ignore his height of 2 when climbing. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Ant-Man moved through this turn with at least one Equipment Glyph on its card and place a glyph from that card on this card.
A couple of thoughts though:
1) I know it would be a mechanical change, but the wording on Small but Mighty could be cleaned up a bit if we allowed the "to a minimum of 1" to apply to the defense subtraction as well.
2) Tiny Thief has a lot going on for one power; what about splitting the Tiny Stealth bit back out into Tiny Stealth and just let him have four powers?
For the first suggested change, I'd rather leave it as it is, as I do quite like that certain low-level minions like Street Thugs or HYDRA Agents if unboosted can't defend against him at all, but that isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'd be happy splitting Tiny Thief into Tiny Stealth and another power (to which I'd possibly try to come up with a different name), but 4 powers might be a hard sell for other people, and I don't want to have to cut anything (especially not at this stage). Also, I'm wondering if we want to take the adjacent bit out of Small But Mighty - it's not a big deal, but it does affect whether or not he can use it if he has the Bat Shurikens.

Thank you, btw. Really helpful.


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  #162  
Old April 7th, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

Sizes shouldn't be capitalized; "tiny" is correct, not "Tiny."
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  #163  
Old April 8th, 2017, 01:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Sizes shouldn't be capitalized; "tiny" is correct, not "Tiny."
This is correct.

For those following along...feel free to check out the following...C3G Design Process Checklists

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  #164  
Old April 8th, 2017, 08:32 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
For the first suggested change, I'd rather leave it as it is, as I do quite like that certain low-level minions like Street Thugs or HYDRA Agents if unboosted can't defend against him at all, but that isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
That's fine, I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd be happy splitting Tiny Thief into Tiny Stealth and another power (to which I'd possibly try to come up with a different name), but 4 powers might be a hard sell for other people, and I don't want to have to cut anything (especially not at this stage).
Personally, it's the number of effects and overall complexity of the card I'm watching for, which this card pushes regardless of the number of powers it's sorted into. In this case, the only difference is we'd be breaking the powers apart for easier readability, which as long as it fits on the card fine, seems like a positive to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Also, I'm wondering if we want to take the adjacent bit out of Small But Mighty - it's not a big deal, but it does affect whether or not he can use it if he has the Bat Shurikens.
Well, it's a pretty niche situation, and it doesn't seem like a theme break; I mean, shurikens being flung out of seemingly nowhere seems like a pretty good surprise attack to me. We can add it back in, but with the amount of text/effects going on with this card already I was trying to condense as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Sizes shouldn't be capitalized; "tiny" is correct, not "Tiny."
Good catch, I missed that.

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  #165  
Old April 8th, 2017, 10:55 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (Vote Final Editing)

I'd be fine with dividing Tiny Thief out into Tiny Stealth and a separate thieving power. Worth noting that we probably want to update the wording for Tiny Stealth, if we do that.
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  #166  
Old April 8th, 2017, 11:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
For the first suggested change, I'd rather leave it as it is, as I do quite like that certain low-level minions like Street Thugs or HYDRA Agents if unboosted can't defend against him at all, but that isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
That's fine, I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggestion.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd be happy splitting Tiny Thief into Tiny Stealth and another power (to which I'd possibly try to come up with a different name), but 4 powers might be a hard sell for other people, and I don't want to have to cut anything (especially not at this stage).
Personally, it's the number of effects and overall complexity of the card I'm watching for, which this card pushes regardless of the number of powers it's sorted into. In this case, the only difference is we'd be breaking the powers apart for easier readability, which as long as it fits on the card fine, seems like a positive to me.
Theoretically, I'm okay with it (though I'd probably want to change the name in that case) - the only thing is what other heroes will think about a 4 power card. I'd like to hear thoughts from the other heroes - I'm honestly not bothered either way.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Also, I'm wondering if we want to take the adjacent bit out of Small But Mighty - it's not a big deal, but it does affect whether or not he can use it if he has the Bat Shurikens.
Well, it's a pretty niche situation, and it doesn't seem like a theme break; I mean, shurikens being flung out of seemingly nowhere seems like a pretty good surprise attack to me. We can add it back in, but with the amount of text/effects going on with this card already I was trying to condense as much as possible.
Cool, I can work with that, and it does seem thematically justified, I just want to make absolutely sure we know what we're doing with things like that and bear them in mind - I've seen a lot of comments about powers that shouldn't work with shurikens but do before and people being concerned about that, so it's always something I'm careful to check and bring up to make sure it isn't decided accidentally by default, as it so easily could.


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  #167  
Old April 8th, 2017, 12:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
For the first suggested change, I'd rather leave it as it is, as I do quite like that certain low-level minions like Street Thugs or HYDRA Agents if unboosted can't defend against him at all, but that isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
That's fine, I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggestion.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd be happy splitting Tiny Thief into Tiny Stealth and another power (to which I'd possibly try to come up with a different name), but 4 powers might be a hard sell for other people, and I don't want to have to cut anything (especially not at this stage).
Personally, it's the number of effects and overall complexity of the card I'm watching for, which this card pushes regardless of the number of powers it's sorted into. In this case, the only difference is we'd be breaking the powers apart for easier readability, which as long as it fits on the card fine, seems like a positive to me.
Theoretically, I'm okay with it (though I'd probably want to change the name in that case) - the only thing is what other heroes will think about a 4 power card. I'd like to hear thoughts from the other heroes - I'm honestly not bothered either way.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Also, I'm wondering if we want to take the adjacent bit out of Small But Mighty - it's not a big deal, but it does affect whether or not he can use it if he has the Bat Shurikens.
Well, it's a pretty niche situation, and it doesn't seem like a theme break; I mean, shurikens being flung out of seemingly nowhere seems like a pretty good surprise attack to me. We can add it back in, but with the amount of text/effects going on with this card already I was trying to condense as much as possible.
Cool, I can work with that, and it does seem thematically justified, I just want to make absolutely sure we know what we're doing with things like that and bear them in mind - I've seen a lot of comments about powers that shouldn't work with shurikens but do before and people being concerned about that, so it's always something I'm careful to check and bring up to make sure it isn't decided accidentally by default, as it so easily could.
If it can be thematically justified...and I think it can be here I don't worry about it. The issue about the Batarangs was with Wolverine type wording that subtracted because of his adamantium claws and the batarangs aren't adamantium.

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  #168  
Old April 8th, 2017, 12:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
For the first suggested change, I'd rather leave it as it is, as I do quite like that certain low-level minions like Street Thugs or HYDRA Agents if unboosted can't defend against him at all, but that isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
That's fine, I thought I'd just throw it out there as a suggestion.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd be happy splitting Tiny Thief into Tiny Stealth and another power (to which I'd possibly try to come up with a different name), but 4 powers might be a hard sell for other people, and I don't want to have to cut anything (especially not at this stage).
Personally, it's the number of effects and overall complexity of the card I'm watching for, which this card pushes regardless of the number of powers it's sorted into. In this case, the only difference is we'd be breaking the powers apart for easier readability, which as long as it fits on the card fine, seems like a positive to me.
Theoretically, I'm okay with it (though I'd probably want to change the name in that case) - the only thing is what other heroes will think about a 4 power card. I'd like to hear thoughts from the other heroes - I'm honestly not bothered either way.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Also, I'm wondering if we want to take the adjacent bit out of Small But Mighty - it's not a big deal, but it does affect whether or not he can use it if he has the Bat Shurikens.
Well, it's a pretty niche situation, and it doesn't seem like a theme break; I mean, shurikens being flung out of seemingly nowhere seems like a pretty good surprise attack to me. We can add it back in, but with the amount of text/effects going on with this card already I was trying to condense as much as possible.
Cool, I can work with that, and it does seem thematically justified, I just want to make absolutely sure we know what we're doing with things like that and bear them in mind - I've seen a lot of comments about powers that shouldn't work with shurikens but do before and people being concerned about that, so it's always something I'm careful to check and bring up to make sure it isn't decided accidentally by default, as it so easily could.
If it can be thematically justified...and I think it can be here I don't worry about it. The issue about the Batarangs was with Wolverine type wording that subtracted because of his adamantium claws and the batarangs aren't adamantium.
Absolutely agree, I just feel that these are the sorts of issues that ought to be raised in case people do have a problem with it.
Any thoughts on whether to split the powers? I'm not bothered either way, though I'd probably slightly veer towards no.
Oh, while you're here, @japes , since we seem to be nearing the end of the design, any chance you could get some pictures snapped of that Thomas set you mentioned earlier, in case the ones from the film in the Third Post won't work (which I think they might not). I'd really appreciate it.


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