Justice League Design *Brainstorming*

[Lazy Orang]

Can I have a basic overview of the different directions? I haven't been able to keep up with this, but am definitely interested and would like to throw in my two'pennoth (if non-members are allowed to vote that is).

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

This is shaping up to be a tight vote! Six ballots in and everything has at least 3 votes (nothing has more than 5). The weighted points make the range a little bit larger, of course (9-14), but we definitely aren't seeing a clear overall favorite quite yet.

I should say, I don't think the vote is a set in stone affair. It's clear you, Yoda, and myself prefer Marker Burn. We've put the most time and effort into this, and spearheaded this entire thing. So for me, if it comes down to just a few votes, I'd say we move forward to that. Now, if nobody else is liking it, and it's a distant 3rd or worse type of thing, then yeah, probably not worth considering. But I see this as more of a group consensus and litmus test rather than a "whoever gets 1st, even if by 1 vote, is going to be the one made". If something doesn't have a lot of support, it's probably best left behind, but if it comes between 2-3 neck and neck, I'd imagine we have final say.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no clear cut leader in the pack. I'm also not against some sort of combination. I think we were on to something with the combined Marker Burn + Original/Classic Markers. Giving a static benefit to those with markers, and then having 1 power on each card that can be offered when you remove a marker.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Can I have a basic overview of the different directions? I haven't been able to keep up with this, but am definitely interested and would like to throw in my two'pennoth (if non-members are allowed to vote that is).

There's a short description and example of each in the voting thing itself. But here's an explanation:

Original Marker
-What we originally presented, that got vetoed. The goal would be to give each design a marker to put on themselves, and 1-2 to give out. To encourage people to play the Justice League characters together, the powers giving bonuses to those with markers, will get better by having more markers in play at the same time.

Class Change
This is essentially the same as the Original Marker direction above, but instead of using markers, we change the class of others to "League Member". The difference would be, it is restricted to specific classes. It'd call out Vigilante, Champion, Scientist etc. and turn them into "League Member" instead.

Team Powers
Team Powers once again calls out specific classes, but does it in a different way. Each design will have 3 powers being offered, in 1 special. 1 power will be given at all times. 1 power will be usable once per round. 1 power will be usable once per game. Each power will call out 3 classes. For example: If an Archer, Magician, or King rolls the 20-sided die, add 2 to the roll. & Once per round, before an Officer, Champion, or Scientist you control attacks with a normal attack, you may add 2 to your attack for that attack.

Marker Burn
This would feature markers given out to 5 specific classes, on each design. However, the markers are used similar to Lantern markers, or Black King's investment markers. Each design would offer 2-3 powers, each which would be more powerful/useful than your normal bonus given out. However, the catch is that you'd have to remove a marker from that figure's card in order to use a power. This would provide a bit of risk/reward marker management system, to make itself different than any other marker synergy. Multiple markers can be placed on a single person's card as well. For example: At the start of the game, place up to 5 total markers on any Unique Champion, King, Archer, Magician, or Vigilante Heroes you control. Once per turn, you may remove 1 marker from a figure's card to use this special. If a figure you control rolls the 20-sided die, add 3 to your roll.

Classic Markers + Classes
This is essentially the Avengers marker system, but markers are only able to be placed on specific classes. So the specials being offered will be flat bonuses that are always active.

[IAmBatman]

Agreed that if it's close, so long as we're confident we can pass a Hero vote, we can still have final say. Honestly, even if it were Classic Markers + Class, we could include aspects of Marker Burn.

Edit: Though it's worth noting that after you and johnny voted, Marker Burn and Classic Markers + Classes are 1 and 2 in points and 2 and 1 in number of votes received. And they only functional difference between the two is that Marker Burn uses up the Markers to grant powers and Classic Markers + Classes keeps the powers static. It's always been likely that the individual card designs would lead to a mix of those effects anyhow, IMO.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

I should say, I don't think the vote is a set in stone affair. It's clear you, Yoda, and myself prefer Marker Burn.

Then why have the vote?

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

We've (bats, Yoda, and myself) put the most time and effort into this, and spearheaded this entire thing. So for me, if it comes down to just a few votes, I'd say we move forward to that.

Good to know my time was well spent...let me know how it turns out.


Also of note...your original marker version got 3 out of 4 Yes votes

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

Then why have the vote?

Good to know my time was well spent...let me know how it turns out.

You're misinterpreting the point.

The vote is so we know where everyone stands. What people like, and what they don't. If something gets 10 votes, and something gets 50, there's clearly a reason not to go with the one with 10 votes. However, if something gets 30 votes, something gets 28 votes, and something gets 25 votes...how is that by any means a full gone conclusion which is the best direction to take?

As for your second comment... Everyone has a say, and everyone's opinion matters. That's what this has all been about. But this wasn't a matter of "let's let everyone else decide the fate of the synergy we run with". This was supposed to be an opinion poll, to get an idea of where everyone stands. Wasted time? What if the poll ends with the "Original Marker" direction winning by 1 vote. You want to talk about wasted time... My point is, we didn't do all the fleshing out, hashing out, discussing, brainstorming, and everything from the start 'til now, just to simply leave it up to a concrete vote. It's made for data. Data that we then take into serious consideration, come up with the best solution, and move forward. Nowhere did I give the impression that the top vote should be cast aside, simply to ignore everything and go with whatever we like. It's a matter of using those opinions,a nd finding the ultimate solution between the favorites in the running. If you call that wasted time on your part then I'm not sure what to say. If that's the case... I've wasted my time on about 5 other directions that didn't even make it to this stage.

[IAmBatman]

Agreed with the above. For the record, here's the current vote count (at least as far as I've tallied it):

Marker Burn 21
Classic Marker + Classes 17
Team Powers 16
Original Marker 15
Class Change 13

My edit comments were based on that status. If Original Markers gets a sudden surge of support and outpaces the other options, hey, cool, maybe that'll be enough to get it past the Heroes this time, in which case it was time well spent. But my opinion is that the best idea is winning the vote right now and that it's the choicest fruit of our labor.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

You're misinterpreting the point.

The vote is so we know where everyone stands. What people like, and what they don't. If something gets 10 votes, and something gets 50, there's clearly a reason not to go with the one with 10 votes. However, if something gets 30 votes, something gets 28 votes, and something gets 25 votes...how is that by any means a full gone conclusion which is the best direction to take?

As for your second comment... Everyone has a say, and everyone's opinion matters. That's what this has all been about. But this wasn't a matter of "let's let everyone else decide the fate of the synergy we run with". This was supposed to be an opinion poll, to get an idea of where everyone stands. Wasted time? What if the poll ends with the "Original Marker" direction winning by 1 vote. You want to talk about wasted time... My point is, we didn't do all the fleshing out, hashing out, discussing, brainstorming, and everything from the start 'til now, just to simply leave it up to a concrete vote. It's made for data. Data that we then take into serious consideration, come up with the best solution, and move forward. Nowhere did I give the impression that the top vote should be cast aside, simply to ignore everything and go with whatever we like. It's a matter of using those opinions,a nd finding the ultimate solution between the favorites in the running. If you call that wasted time on your part then I'm not sure what to say. If that's the case... I've wasted my time on about 5 other directions that didn't even make it to this stage.

The point is I have spent a ton of time on this as well, including testing several of the ideas and I feel despite the fact that I have contributed several times a day because I didn't post at least once an hour my time has been belittled as not as important. The bolded part above was more of the point as I understand if there is not a clear cut favorite decisions will be made. No one likes to feel like there efforts were merely space filler.

[IAmBatman]

Sock's many things, but he's not born with a gift of tact.

Edit: japes, how recently did you test the ideas? If you have any recent playtest reports, like the ones I posted, I'd love to see them. I really think that testing these gives you the best impression of them. Have you taken Marker Burn for a spin, yet? I really think it's the most tactically interesting.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

The point is I have spent a ton of time on this as well, including testing several of the ideas and I feel despite the fact that I have contributed several times a day because I didn't post at least once an hour my time has been belittled as not as important. The bolded part above was more of the point as I understand if there is not a clear cut favorite decisions will be made.

That's fair. dok has as well, at least in the original direction, and up until we started fleshing each out. I'm probably leaving someone else out. It wasn't intentional. You're definitely a part of this as well.

Ultimately my point was, the vote isn't necessarily set in stone, and is better served as a way for us to take the highest vote earners into consideration, and see what they do right, and try to make the best version and go from there. I just didn't want people to have the impression that if something wins by a couple of votes, it meant we're going to ignore the other options, or that the winning vote meant that nothing would be changed/altered in that direction.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Sock's many things, but he's not born with a gift of tact.

It's not necessarily the case, I just think sometimes my words come across one way, when I wasn't intending them to be taken as such. The only time I'm ever intentionally rude/disrespectful is when I feel I'm being disrespected.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

That's fair. dok has as well, at least in the original direction, and up until we started fleshing each out. I'm probably leaving someone else out. It wasn't intentional. You're definitely a part of this as well.

Ultimately my point was, the vote isn't necessarily set in stone, and is better served as a way for us to take the highest vote earners into consideration, and see what they do right, and try to make the best version and go from there. I just didn't want people to have the impression that if something wins by a couple of votes, it meant we're going to ignore the other options, or that the winning vote meant that nothing would be changed/altered in that direction.

Fair enough. I'm probably just testy. My father had surgery yesterday and I had an issue with a coworker yesterday (a subordinate young kid with testosterone issues and a inferiority complex and disrespectful attitude towards his superior...me...with a quick temper).

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

Fair enough. I'm probably just testy. My father had surgery yesterday and I had an issue with a coworker yesterday (a subordinate young kid with testosterone issues and a inferiority complex and disrespectful attitude towards his superior...me...with a quick temper).

Hope all turns out well with the surgery.