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  #49  
Old July 17th, 2018, 07:00 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
Just had this thought, which could help balance him with He-Man:
Quote:
MAGICALLY ADEPT
Skeletor may cast Spells as if he had the Magical Defense special power. While Skeletor is casting a Spell, whenever a special power on an Army Card or glyph refers to the Magical Defense special power, it refers to this special power as well. When Skeletor is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, if he rolls at least one Shield, the most wounds Skeletor can take for this attack is one.

Now that's interesting...and re-usuable...

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  #50  
Old July 17th, 2018, 07:04 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I think if we keep the Power Punch I'll revamp it as a special attack that can knock back and remove OMs.



The Punch in some form NEEDS to be there...you can't do any version of He-Man without the Punch...shoot the intro to the show ends with him punching the screen doesn't it...I haven't seen it in a long, long, time other than the first episode a couple years ago...my son said no and we moved on to other things.

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  #51  
Old July 17th, 2018, 07:28 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
[*]Skeletor is kind of portrayed as a bumbler in most of the episodes, but in the comics he is much more of a serious threat, and occasionally he is portrayed that way as well in the TV show. i know the She-Ra Origin has him as much more of a threat. I'm really liking these so far. I just really hate that the Havok Staff doesn't freeze people in place or teleport him. Those were two of the more iconic powers. I think Magical Defense puts him more on par with He-Man, so that he can give him a run for his money, but should eventually fall first. Of course that's just theoryscape, so testing will show if that's true or not.[/LIST]
To me, his mind controlling people is just as iconic or more iconic than either of the above. That said, I could see putting a teleport on the havoc staff if there's another magical item we can come up with that lets him mind control (and then we'd scrap the crystal ball).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
Just had this thought, which could help balance him with He-Man:
Quote:
MAGICALLY ADEPT
Skeletor may cast Spells as if he had the Magical Defense special power. While Skeletor is casting a Spell, whenever a special power on an Army Card or glyph refers to the Magical Defense special power, it refers to this special power as well. When Skeletor is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, if he rolls at least one Shield, the most wounds Skeletor can take for this attack is one.
Seems like a lot of work to get to a pretty similar place as Magical Defense. I think I'll just ride with Magical Defense and drop his life a tad. Even then, losing defense for having the glyph will make his life drop faster, due to a larger likelihood of his getting hit by an attack. It'll just prevent He-Man from one-shotting him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I think if we keep the Power Punch I'll revamp it as a special attack that can knock back and remove OMs.
The Punch in some form NEEDS to be there...you can't do any version of He-Man without the Punch...shoot the intro to the show ends with him punching the screen doesn't it...I haven't seen it in a long, long, time other than the first episode a couple years ago...my son said no and we moved on to other things.
OK, that's one for the punch (japes) and one for the throw (tornado) so far. Where does everyone else come in?

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  #52  
Old July 17th, 2018, 08:16 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Can you do a punch then throw in one special?
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  #53  
Old July 17th, 2018, 08:16 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Best artifacts I could come up with for Skeletor to use instead of the Crystal Ball:

The Spellstone (cool name, technically used to control the weather, but I'd want it to teleport or mind control)

The Mind Ray (not used by Skeletor, but a human scientist, but at least from the show)

Magic Stone Amulet (not much of a name, really, but used to control Orko, and used by Skeletor and his minions)

The Diamond of Disappearance (the name fits use as a teleportation artifact, even if it was used to banish people into a timeless dimension. Doesn't feel like too much of a stretch to say it could make someone teleport).

The problem with Skeletor in general is half the time he uses artifacts to do these things and half the time he just uses blasts from his eyes or hands or says a quick word or something. Totally inconsistent, which tells me we can fudge a tad in the name of a flashier design if we want.

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  #54  
Old July 17th, 2018, 08:17 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Can you do a punch then throw in one special?
I think a special attack with a punch that causes knock back would be mechanically just about the same and thematically cleaner.

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  #55  
Old July 17th, 2018, 11:11 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Here is my current working point. The big changes are as follows:

1. I changed the Power Punch quite a bit to stream line it and give it a knockback component. Wording is based on a combo of Atom's Atomic Punch and Shocker's special attack.

2. I updated Heroic Duty with the loop-avoiding language.

3. I lowered He-Man's attack to 5 and altered the Power Sword so it gives no defense bonus and the ranged Counter Strike only works if you have the Honorable Personality (should work for She-Ra, shouldn't for Skeletor, but Skellie should still get the attack bonus). Also, per Ronin's suggestion, restricted the attack bonus to adjacent attacks to prevent someone like Skeletor (or Punisher) from being God with it.

4. Lowered Skeletor's Attack Number by one and Life Number by one.

5. Added language to Skeletor's first power (based on Utility Belt 2) to let players know how to deal with him having two Equipment Glyphs on his card.

6. I changed the name of Power Mad to Power Obsessed and put in language to keep him from getting the bonus twice if he has two glyphs on his card.

7. I scratched Crystal Ball in favor of a Spellstone with a Teleportation Power on it (based off the Space Gem Equipment Glyph).

8. I edited the text of the Havoc Staff Equipment Glyph to not mention Psionic Command

Big Non-Changes

1. I kept He-Man's personality as Honorable instead of Noble. If we want others to be able to use the Power Sword, we could branch out to Noble (he is a Prince, after all) but Honorable feels more "right" to me and fits a possible future She-Ra very well.

2. I kept a punch over a throw. Mechanically He-Man punching something into the stratosphere should feel similar to him throwing them and punching just feels more "right" to me than throwing for him. He does and has done both, but thinking of his punch brings me back to six-year-old me a lot quicker.

3. I kept Magical Defense on Skeletor. He'll need it to stand up to He-Man's punches, he is a master sorcerer, and doing an end around power just feels like it's trying too hard. If he comes in too power, I'd rather tweak stats/bonuses than make a more complicated power there.

Lingering Concerns

1. The Spellstone Glyph feels thematically so-so for the placement of a teleportation power. I'd love feedback.

2. The teleportation power itself just feels like a weaker Space Gem. In terms of putting it in a glyph pool, it feels a bit "what's the point?" I did let him do it instead of attacking so he can better position himself around allies, but that's the only real difference, other than a shorter teleportation range.

3. I just want to make sure the theme feels appropriate, mechanics are all clear, and wording looks sharp. If so, I'm close to ready to put these in real threads.

HE-MAN
ADAM

ETERNIAN
UNIQUE HERO
CHAMPION
HONORABLE
MEDIUM 5

6 LIFE
MOVE 6
RANGE 1
ATTACK 5
DEFENSE 6

POWER OF GRAYSKULL
Start the game with the Power Sword equipment glyph on this card.

POWER PUNCH
Before rolling dice for He-Man’s normal attack, you may remove any number of unrevealed Order Markers from this card and add that number of dice to your roll. After an opponent rolls defense dice against He-Man's normal attack, if the defending figure is adjacent to He-Man, you may Knockback the defending figure by placing it on an empty space up to X spaces from its current position. X is equal to the number of skulls rolled in the attack. A figure moved by this special power never takes any leaving engagement attacks and cannot be placed closer to He-Man than its original placement. A figure moved by this special power can receive any falling damage that may apply.

HEROIC DUTY
If a friendly figure without this special power that is within 3 spaces of He-Man would roll defense dice against a normal, non-adjacent attack, instead He-Man must move adjacent to the figure if he is able to. He-Man must roll defense and take any resulting wounds from the attack instead of the friendly figure. When He-Man uses Heroic Duty, he will take all leaving engagement attacks.

POWER SWORD
EQUIPMENT GLYPH
Add 2 dice to your attack against adjacent figures. If the figure equipped with the Power Sword has the Honorable Personality, when they defend against an attack from a non-adjacent figure all excess shields count as unblockable wounds on the attacking figure.


SKELETOR
KELDOR

ETERNIAN
UNIQUE HERO
SORCEROR
ENVIOUS
MEDIUM 5

5 LIFE
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 5

MYSTERIOUS ITEM OF POWER
At the start of the game, place a Glyph of Object of Power, a Glyph of Havoc Staff, and a Glyph of Crystal Ball symbol-side up into a Glyph Pool, choose one Glyph from the pool at random, without looking at it, and place the chosen Glyph symbol-side up on this card. Set the other Glyphs aside. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, instead of moving, if Skeletor is unengaged, you may roll one combat die. If you roll a blank or a shield, immediately end your turn. If you roll a skull, flip any symbol-side up Glyph on this card power-side up. Skeletor can equip an Equipment Glyph this way even if there is another Equipment Glyph on this card, up to a maximum of 2.

POWER OBSESSED
When Skeletor is equipped with one or more glyphs, add 2 dice to Skeletor’s Attack and subtract 2 dice from his Defense.

MAGICAL DEFENSE
When Skeletor is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, the most wounds Skeletor can take for this attack is one.


HAVOC STAFF
EQUIPMENT GLYPH
If you inflict at least one wound with your normal attack on an opponent’s Unique Hero that is not a Telepath, you may take temporary control of that Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of the turn, control of the Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before being affected by this power. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card.

THE SPELLSTONE
EQUIPMENT GLYPH
Instead of attacking with this figure, you may choose up to two figures within 2 clear sight spaces of this figure and place this figure on any unoccupied space within 10 spaces. After placing this figure, place the chosen figures adjacent to this figure. Figures moved by this Glyph will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

OBJECT OF POWER GLYPH
PERMANENT GLYPH
The rules for this Glyph vary, depending on the Game Scenario.

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  #56  
Old July 18th, 2018, 02:03 AM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Looking good. You can probably simplify the Power Punch wording a little, since you don't need the language about not being able to place the Knockbacked figure closer to He-Man - they're starting off adjacent to him. They can only get so much closer....



It might be a good idea (like others have mentioned) to add a line to Power of Grayskull that lets him only lose the Power Sword when he takes 2+ wounds at once. Otherwise, it's pretty easy for enemies to exploit Heroic Duty for the LEAs and get it away from him.
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  #57  
Old July 18th, 2018, 09:48 AM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Definitely in favor of punch over throw here, but I wouldn't mind seeing a power that combines both. Looking good all around! Lots of clarity coming through with the glyph changes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
it's pretty easy for enemies to exploit Heroic Duty for the LEAs and get it away from him.
Never thought of this, that is quite interesting. I see what was meant when it was said that the CRB considered it a negative power. Some protection on the glyph would make sense.

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  #58  
Old July 18th, 2018, 11:09 AM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post


SKELETOR
KELDOR

ETERNIAN
UNIQUE HERO
SORCEROR
ENVIOUS
MEDIUM 5

5 LIFE
MOVE 5
RANGE 5
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 5

MYSTERIOUS ITEM OF POWER
At the start of the game, place a Glyph of Object of Power, a Glyph of Havoc Staff, and a Glyph of Spellstone symbol-side up into a Glyph Pool, choose one Glyph from the pool at random, without looking at it, and place the chosen Glyph symbol-side up on this card. Set the other Glyphs aside. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, instead of moving, if Skeletor is unengaged, you may roll one combat die. If you roll a blank or a shield, immediately end your turn. If you roll a skull, flip any symbol-side up Glyph on this card power-side up. Skeletor can equip an Equipment Glyph this way even if there is another Equipment Glyph on this card, up to a maximum of 2.

Mysterious Item of Power still has Crystal Ball instead of Spellstone

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  #59  
Old July 18th, 2018, 11:27 AM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Cool!

Was going to suggest a Shocker style power, love Shocker.
Is Power Sword supposed to work against SAs?
Still not sold on Heroic Duty but waiting for CRB review before passing final judgement.

For Skeletor, I like Spellstone but does it need a size restriction or event hero restriction? I do like the idea of Teleporting Satanus and Bane on top of someone though.
How about a friendly restriction? With Magma he can auto-teleport any (two) figures into lava at will.
I am with Spidey on preferring freeze over mind control on Havoc Staff. In a Cap and Starlord build he is still throwing 8 Attack at 5 Range and getting mind control on top. Which again is a Magma problem.

I agree to stick with Magical Defense though as I said the defense subtraction in Power Obsessed means little compared to the Attack bonus who's bonus is amplified by the Havok Staff mind control.


If Skeletor is wounded does he lose all the glyphs on his card including the face down ones?


Actually now that I think about it, that alone may be enough to balance out the magic items he starts with as he will lose them easily.
Where does Object of Power go if he loses it, or would he not because it is not an EQ Glyph?
Also since OoP is not an EQ Glyph, it will stand out among the EQ Glyphs?
Or are those placed on Glyphs that are the same color as Permanent Glyphs?
Was just thinking that Treasure Glyphs are a different color not sure if there is an official color for EQ Glyphs.
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  #60  
Old July 18th, 2018, 02:57 PM
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Re: IAmBatman's Design Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Looking good. You can probably simplify the Power Punch wording a little, since you don't need the language about not being able to place the Knockbacked figure closer to He-Man - they're starting off adjacent to him. They can only get so much closer....



It might be a good idea (like others have mentioned) to add a line to Power of Grayskull that lets him only lose the Power Sword when he takes 2+ wounds at once. Otherwise, it's pretty easy for enemies to exploit Heroic Duty for the LEAs and get it away from him.
Good points on both. I'll simplify the Power Punch language and add the 2+ wound requirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scapemage View Post
Definitely in favor of punch over throw here, but I wouldn't mind seeing a power that combines both. Looking good all around! Lots of clarity coming through with the glyph changes.
I'm not sure how that'd work. A punch that throws? He punches and then throws? I'd have to see a concrete suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Mysterious Item of Power still has Crystal Ball instead of Spellstone
Good catch. Will update in the next pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Was going to suggest a Shocker style power, love Shocker.
Is Power Sword supposed to work against SAs?
Good thought. It probably shouldn't. I'll restrict it to normal in the next update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
For Skeletor, I like Spellstone but does it need a size restriction or event hero restriction? I do like the idea of Teleporting Satanus and Bane on top of someone though.
The Space Gem doesn't have that restriction, and this is basically the Space Gem with a more restricted teleportation range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
How about a friendly restriction? With Magma he can auto-teleport any (two) figures into lava at will.
It should probably have that one, thematically. I'll add it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I am with Spidey on preferring freeze over mind control on Havoc Staff. In a Cap and Starlord build he is still throwing 8 Attack at 5 Range and getting mind control on top. Which again is a Magma problem.
Recent threads (Hellboy) have told me that with the Molten Lava fixes, Magma problems are overrated. I think the thing to do, though, is to make the mind control instead of attacking, rather than triggered on wounding. I think that's more thematic too, as he rarely pairs attacks and mind control. It's usually Mind Control instead of attacking.

If you have an idea for a "Freeze" power, I'd love to see it. To me, though, mind control is super thematic for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I agree to stick with Magical Defense though as I said the defense subtraction in Power Obsessed means little compared to the Attack bonus who's bonus is amplified by the Havok Staff mind control.
For sure, which is why I also dropped his life and attack numbers one each. I think the big thing is when he gets a glyph, he'll take hits from most attacks. He'll still need to take 5 hits to die, but it'll at least make it so he blocks a lot fewer of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
If Skeletor is wounded does he lose all the glyphs on his card including the face down ones?
I would argue that the facedown glyph is not equipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Actually now that I think about it, that alone may be enough to balance out the magic items he starts with as he will lose them easily.
Where does Object of Power go if he loses it, or would he not because it is not an EQ Glyph?
He would not, because it's not an EQ Glyph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Also since OoP is not an EQ Glyph, it will stand out among the EQ Glyphs?
Or are those placed on Glyphs that are the same color as Permanent Glyphs?
Was just thinking that Treasure Glyphs are a different color not sure if there is an official color for EQ Glyphs.
That's a good point. Can art folks weigh in on this? I'm honestly not sure. We could always make these Equipment Glyphs with the same backings as the Object of Power to help with that. Or I could mix it up to make the random thing work differently somehow (D20?).

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


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