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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #49  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 05:32 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

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Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
Do you guys think that Wolverine's, Nightcrawler's, Toad's, Magneto's, etc, cost would have come down some if they were not Mutants? I believe that EVERYTHING on a card should be factored into its cost, even if it is only a little bit of inflation or deflation.
No I don't think their cost would come down if they weren't mutants. This is exactly what I mean, anybody that offers the synergy to mutants would be priced appropriately for that synergy, like prof X, but those receiving the synergy shouldn't be as the their will often be played without receiving this synergy & should be costed according to how they play not how they might play.
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  #50  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 08:23 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I'd be surprised if this guy is an A+. But the proof is in the testing, as always.
True. Billy is clearly just an add on extension to CM's life and in a unique way where you may get some additional synergy somehow. And if you get things lined up just right, he may be able to SHAZAM! some enemies for a couple of wounds. I do agree with wanting and expecting to keep the cost very low here. I mean I said try for 60, but that is really just to say "start". Once you get him on the board, a lot about him and his cost should be able to jump out to the tester rather quickly. Something this unique and new is difficult to theoryscape.
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  #51  
Old May 10th, 2011, 08:01 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Billy Batson (with Captain Marvel)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? YES.
- What should be the unit's point value? I feel like 40 is good for him with our changes made, but that would be the absolute lowest. I could see him going up to 50 in some army or squad tests though, but I doubt he will reach 60.
- Give a brief overview. Fun design. He never takes an Order Marker, and basically, you use Shazam almost any chance you have unless you are trying to save those extra wounds for someone special. BB will die easily, but he does a very good job of giving Captain Marvel that extra bit of oomph and flavor he needed. I really do like this design, and I hope it opens up the flood gates for more Secret Identities.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 120.
- Give a brief overview. I hope I am not starting to see a pattern that Captain Marvel is winning with two wounds from death (winning by 100 points), but it seems that way. That could mean that BB is worth about 120 points. That is something we need to look out for in the tests to come.
Map: Custom.
Units: Billy Batson, Captain Marvel VS S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents x3 +3.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? YES.
- What should be the unit's point value? 60.
- Give a brief overview. Felt balanced overall, but BB can really be a menace when he is engaged with a lot of figures.
Map: Custom.
Units: Billy Batson (with Captain Marvel) VS Hydra Agents.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 60.
- Give a brief overview. BB is easily killed, but at worst, you get two chances to deal out auto wounds.
Map: Custom.
Units: Billy Batson, Captain Marvel, and Lex Luthor (Battle Suit) VS Superman and Red Tornado.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass
, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 60.
- Give a brief overview. Fun and deadly, but not overpowered here, nor was it unbeatable.
Map: Custom.
Units: Billy Batson, Captain Marvel, and Thor VS Darkseid, Sinestro, and Puppet Master.
Spoiler Alert!

Last edited by Griffin; May 11th, 2011 at 05:33 AM.
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  #52  
Old May 10th, 2011, 08:57 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

TEST 1
Map: Custom.
Units: Billy Batson (with Captain Marvel) VS Superman.
Billy Shazamed 4 times and killed Superman, but Superman put 2 wounds on CM and also killed Billy. As is, Billy is worth A LOT OF POINTS.... WAY TOO POWERFUL. I think that the best way to alter this card and tone it down is to simply make Shazam deal only 1 wound. If that had been the case, Billy would be dead, CM would have 2 wounds, and Superman would have 4 wounds. That means that Billy would have helped to deal 2 damage to Superman beyond what CM received. Roughly, that means that Billy would have helped to deal 115 points. I think that is still more powerful than what is ideal, and so another restriction on that power could be once per round..... I need lots of feedback on this issue please.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Captain Marvel wins with 2 wounds.
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  #53  
Old May 10th, 2011, 09:24 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

I thought that the 2 wounds would have been too much. I'm not sure about the once per round restriction though as that may hinder the changing when Billy is destroyed & CM still has a lot of health. Maybe if it was roll 1 die & that counts as unblockable wound against all adjacent. That will bring the odds down to 50%. So would that equate to 50% of 115? (60 points would be a nice value if true).

BTW, thank you so much for doing Billy, I was going to ask if you could since you did the initial on CM I thought this would help identify if Billy actually makes a difference.

Also I have linked you test in the OP for ease of returning to it .

Cheers
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  #54  
Old May 10th, 2011, 09:38 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

I like that change of rolling 1 attack die A3n. Update the OP and I will continue.
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  #55  
Old May 10th, 2011, 10:03 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

I'm at work so I can't easily check official wording, but how about this:
Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After using the SHAZAM! special power roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
Cheers
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  #56  
Old May 10th, 2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

Looks good to me, though there is one small issue that each version before this one also had/has.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After using the SHAZAM! special power roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
After using the power would mean that you have already rolled the unblockable die.

So, here we go.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After switching the figures, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
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  #57  
Old May 10th, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

Or if that doesn't have enough punch you could roll 2 attack dice.

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  #58  
Old May 10th, 2011, 10:15 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
Looks good to me, though there is one small issue that each version before this one also had/has.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After using the SHAZAM! special power roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
After using the power would mean that you have already rolled the unblockable die.

So, here we go.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After switching the figures, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
OP updated then .
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  #59  
Old May 10th, 2011, 10:19 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Or if that doesn't have enough punch you could roll 2 attack dice.
I will keep that option on the table just in case. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
Looks good to me, though there is one small issue that each version before this one also had/has.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After using the SHAZAM! special power roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
After using the power would mean that you have already rolled the unblockable die.

So, here we go.

Quote:
SHAZAM!
When either Billy Batson or Captain Marvel that you control are destroyed or they receive one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After switching the figures, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.
OP updated then .
You da man.
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  #60  
Old May 10th, 2011, 11:09 PM
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Re: C3G Billy Batson - Design Phase

Good stuff, guys! Some slight wording tweaks suggested below:

SHAZAM!
When either your Billy Batson or your Captain Marvel that you control are is destroyed or they receives one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After switching the figures, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.

Or

SHAZAM!
When either your Billy Batson or your Captain Marvel is destroyed or receives one or more wounds, you may remove that figure from the battlefield and place the other figure on that space. After switching the figures, roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure adjacent to the placed figure receives one unblockable wound. Destroyed figures cannot be placed on the battlefield with this special power.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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