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  #421  
Old October 31st, 2017, 05:55 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

You whiners are imagining the grading scale as if the units were competing against each other for the prize of "Best in Show."

That's not how it works. An F unit has no redeeming qualities. None. An A+ unit is extremely strong in a competitive environment. It follows that something in the B range is situationally useful. Something in the C range would be meh, and in the D/F range - let's pretend there's a D range - you'd find the things that are irredeemable, or nearly so.

There's no prize for highest grade, and if most of our units are situationally useful and in the B range, then so much the better.

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  #422  
Old November 1st, 2017, 01:01 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Rygarn should be undervalued in these ranking based on the criteria.

I have seen him in about 15 different games with about a dozen of them tournament games, and based on my evaluation of those games he is an A+.

However, those games were all some kind of draft or take 2 variant. When the power ranking is based on 500 point double blind best army, those games have little bearing on ranking Rygarn in this list due to format context.

It just bears a little odd that likely anytime you will see Rygarn in a competitive tournament setting he will play as an A or higher, but in a 500 point blind setting you just wont see him or he his best army will be outclassed, so thats how his rank should be reflected in this list.
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  #423  
Old November 1st, 2017, 07:28 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I disagree with 20th Maine. Slow rolling them with Raelin seems very strong to me; activate them only turn 1, maybe turn 2 in situations, leave the X on them and use most of the round to run your other figures. I think playing a bunch of them like 4th/10th might not be the way to go, just run 2 or 3 as strong position holders. They also work with Marcus. And only 60pt. I dunno, I just don't see B- at all, even if you were to play them swarm style.

I understand the hate towards figures like Bramcephys, but I think if you build the remainder of your army mitigating the weak matchups it can work. He's really powerful, and does include an answer (not bullet proof but it's an answer) to common range himself, which is a nice touch. He's map dependent so I'm not advocating he's an A figure, but C+ is really low imo. Bramcephys, PK x3, Zetacron looks like a pretty powerful army to me.

The Red Ants I have a soft spot for, so maybe listening to me might not be so accurate haha. But.....they are a 4 squad for 40pt., with movement and attack potential. Only 2 def, but only 40pt. I just think that's too good for C+.

Other than those 3 I pretty much agree with all the rankings. I think Brute Gruts are amazing personally, but admittedly I have't played them yet.

Thanks for the new rankings dude.

Last edited by Cleon; November 1st, 2017 at 07:44 AM.
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  #424  
Old November 1st, 2017, 07:42 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
I have no idea why Major J15 is an A-. He's an okay figure. He's good with Hoplitrons but I thought the whole point of rankings was how much figures contribute to their strongest builds and Hoplitron armies are not good
I agree I've always felt he was a grade too high. He's good, solid stats and abilities at 95pt., but he only attacks once per turn and no bonding or anything. I think he's a solid B+
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  #425  
Old November 1st, 2017, 04:46 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I'll parrot that I think Heracles is more in the A- area. The downside of no-bonding is severely mitigated with his ability to use the X order marker, meaning you can still very efficiently use your turns by just feeding him one numbered marker a round and letting your rest of the army help. Double turns are also pretty versatile, allowing him to grab glyphs out of nowhere or launch himself into battle. He thrives against an army with mixed sizes (so he can get up to 2 throws and 2 attacks off) but that is common enough and getting any less is still good. He really does feel like a C3G hero.

Viceron at B- sounds fine. He can make a fine bomb but it is quite the commitment to pull off and pretty easy to fall apart. I think he is best rolled out slowly (an order marker here and there with an army that doesn't mind) so he's in the thick of it by the mid-game and can use his special. Otherwise there are just better and cheaper options for a clean-up hero and he's just too slow to do all that much early.
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  #426  
Old December 14th, 2017, 09:27 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

It has occurred to me that the Tomb Skeleton Archers are not in this list. I'm curious as to where they would fall...
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  #427  
Old December 14th, 2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
It has occurred to me that the Tomb Skeleton Archers are not in this list. I'm curious as to where they would fall...
He put them at B-.
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  #428  
Old December 14th, 2017, 07:06 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I missed it because I was only looking at the OP.
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  #429  
Old June 13th, 2018, 12:17 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Conversation seems to have dwindled a little bit here, so I figured that I would weigh in my thoughts on some of the unranked figures. Keep in mind that this is mostly from theoryscaping, so there may be some things that I'm missing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Achillean Gladiatrix - We know from MBS and others that a ranged figure bonding with a melee squad is a valuable asset. However, a fairly expensive 3-defense common isn’t ideal, and the timing of Javelin remains frustrating. B-
Agreed. The added ranged option for gladiators is simply too expensive to make a big difference, especially when Spartacus takes so many points off the top of the army, and Priscus does nothing to help their survivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Ashi-Dhulu - Matchup dependent and lacking any significant synergy, but pretty devastating against expensive commons. B
I'd probably say that he's a weak B+. Most armies have a considerable number of commons, and the cheaper ones will generally have a harder time avoiding his main attack afterwards. It definitely depends on the map, though, and I could see ranged forces having a much easier time taking him down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Heracles - It’s hard for an expensive non-bonding melee figure to be very good, but Heracles has some pretty beefy stats and a decent toolbox to work with. B+
I think he's a solid A-. Despite being very expensive and having almost no synergies, his Labors lets him absolutely shred armies in the right circumstances, and the weakness of not being able to attack a smaller figure is severely mitigated by Throw. I think he's a hard counter to Q9, Nilfheim, Grimnak, and some of the other best figures in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Nottingham Brigand - 2 long range attacks of 3 is already decent. More strong bonding options will open things up for these guys. B
While Locksley and many other Rogues exist, I don't think these guys bring enough to the table to warrant a higher ranking yet (more thoughts on Locksley below). Agreed on a B ranking for them.

As for Locksley, I think that he's at best a C+. He has a great attack at range with Disengage, but Treasure Glyphs aren't common enough to make him a great option outside of Nottingham Brigand builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Patrick Ferguson - His negative power really cuts into the benefit of his positive power. Still, one of the toughest heroes for the price. B-
I've actually used him quite a few times, and although he has never done much, his durability is great for the price. I think either a B- or a C+ is more than fair for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Sentinels of Grax - Kind of like melee marro warriors with double the stats and price and half the figure count. Awfully swingy, but like Marro Warriors they can be a near auto-win in some endgame scenarios. B+
Being only two figures with a high defense makes them much swingier than the Marro Warriors, but with a little luck, they're practically unkillable. B+ seems right to me.

EDIT: Just saw some talk about Haduc on the last page. I agree that he's an A-: he's by far the strongest Elf Wizard and does a lot to provide survivability for them. Even standalone as a clean-up hero, when he's being fed all of your Order Markers, he can be pretty tough to take down.
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  #430  
Old July 9th, 2018, 01:10 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings


Well met!

The following have yet to be "officially" ranked:

SOV 2014 INDUCTEES
Mariedian Retaliation
Jarek Guy 9/15/14

SOV 2015 INDUCTEES
The Blademaster Prince
Prince al'Kahora 2/4/15

Minotaur of the Maze
Asterios 4/12/15

Red Tide
Red Ants of Aunstrum 4/20/15

CREVCOR'S COMMISSION C3V Wave 19
Heroes of the Dark Lakes
Beorn Boltcutter
Garrett Burns
Josie Whistletop
Seleena

Warriors of Elswind Forest
20th Maine Volunteers
Tomb Skeleton Archers
Achillean Gladiatrix

Hunters and Drones
Xualtiaca Fire Ants
Zettian Deathwings

Goliaths of the Plains
Bramcephys
The Varja

SOV 2016 INDUCTEES
Deadly Facade
Cormin the Dark 1/8/16

Death From Below
Ashi-Dhulu 12/24/16

Rabble Rouser
Urk 12/24/16

ORELD'S ORDERS
C3V Wave 20
Hunters and Scouts
53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters
Teeth of the Makwa

Orcs and Animata
Sentinels of Grax
Brute Gruts

Heroes of Crumland
Heracles
Hrognak
Patrick Ferguson
Pel the Hill Giant

Warriors of the Glade
Durgeth Ravagers
Darkprowl Thrall
Nottingham Brigand

SoV 2017 Inductees
Ruthless Judgment
Executioner 616

Crimson Reign
Viceron the Blood Knight

Kon-Tar-Na's Ambush
Kon-Tar-Na

CURSE OF STORMTORN PEAK C3V Wave 21
Heroes of a Bygone Age
Chen Tang
Master Lao Xin
Locksley
Yi Feng
Zhen Yuan



Next Generation

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  #431  
Old August 28th, 2018, 06:38 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Here's where I am now; discuss if you like. I'll update the first post once discussion settles down.

20th Maine Volunteers - Theyíre a common ranged squadÖ but using their defensive power makes it harder to leverage their common-ness, and using their offensive power makes it harder to leverage their range-ness. B-
53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters - A ranged squad that can kite melee and force opposing range off of height. 2 attacks in a turn isnít ideal but itís fine if your opponent struggles to shoot back. B
Achillean Gladiatrix - We know from MBS and others that a ranged figure bonding with a melee squad is a valuable asset. However, a fairly expensive 3-defense common isnít ideal, and the timing of Javelin remains frustrating. B-
Ashi-Dhulu - Matchup dependent and lacking any significant synergy, but pretty devastating against expensive commons. B
Asterios - The 120 point standalone hero field is a crowded one, for sure, and Asterios is far from the top of the heap. But against squad armies Asterios will have little trouble earning his value. B+
Beorn Boltcutter - the cheapest Dwarf Hero, and buffing Zetacron is pretty sweet. Still, not quite on the level of the top Dwarf Heroes. B
Bramcephys a terrifying army in a box, but struggles to earn his massive cost. C+
Brute Gruts - Berserk all day long with these guys. Not super consistent but at 65 points they will earn their place more often than not. B+
Cormin the Dark - Decent in a Deathreaver build, but there are better ways to spend your OMs. An awkward intersection of powers makes it hard to find a spot to use him. C
Darkprowl Thrall - Fun power set, but quite reliant on those powers thanks to rather low stats. C
Durgeth Ravagers - shredded by ranged commons, but they hit like a truck and have a solid bonding option. B
Executioner 616 - The math on spending an attack to kill your own figures is rarely favorable. Still, decent stats of her own, and Zettian Infantry and Hoplitrons provide bonding options (and potential explosives) B-
Garrett Burns - One power is niche and the other is fairly easy to work around. Still, 3 attack at 7 range. C+
Heracles - Itís hard for an expensive non-bonding melee figure to be very good, but Heracles has some pretty beefy stats and a decent toolbox to work with. B+
Hrognak - Adding a ranged attack to a strong melee bonding core is a big deal, but 2 attack at 5 range is only a game changer in a fairly narrow range of matchups. B+
Jarek Guy - Not a powerhouse, but that little bit of range makes gives him the versatility to not feel like a waste when you turn to him. B
Josie Whistletop Discount Skahen; her range isnít long enough to keep herself safe from being engaged and taken out. B-
Kon-Tar-Na - Pretty dependent on hitting his first kill to get those double attacks. High mobility is great but the nagrubs can struggle to keep up if heís your only Hivelord. B+
Nottingham Brigand - 2 long range attacks of 3 is already decent. More strong bonding options will open things up for these guys. B
Patrick Ferguson - His negative power really cuts into the benefit of his positive power. Still, one of the toughest heroes for the price. B-
Pel the Hill Giant - Pel is a nice beatstick that bonds with everything. His negative powers are not too crippling. B+
Prince al'Kahora - His power combo seems odd at first, but actually gives him nice options in cleanup. B-
Red Ants of Aunstrum - 4-figure squads that only cost 10 points per figure canít be that bad, but the Red Ants donít really have any particularly good matchups. C+
Seleena - cheap range makes her a near auto-include in any WWL army, and decent filler in an Agent build. Outside of those armies, better filler options are available, though. B
Sentinels of Grax - Kind of like melee marro warriors with double the stats and price and half the figure count. Awfully swingy, but like Marro Warriors they can be a near auto-win in some endgame scenarios. B+
Teeth of the Makwa - Only stingers deliver 3 attacks of 3 at range for a cheaper cost. B+
The Varja - A unique figure that can change the dynamic of games by its presence. Combos well with Deathreavers. Fairly matchup dependent but rarely bad. A-
Tomb Skeleton Archers - Same price, same attack/defense, and same potential 4 attacks at range 7 as Blastatrons. Their figure movement and attack boosts are less impressive, though. Skeletal form cements them as an anti-range ranged squad. B-
Urk - Worse than more cutters or brutes whenever thatís an option. A good option when figure limits force you to fill in. B-
Viceron the Blood Knight - Bloodstorm is most useful early, and Viceron will struggle as a leadoff figure. But just the statline and healing makes for an intimidating cleanup figure. B-
Xualtiaca Fire Ants - Require large numbers to be effective, but swarm sting can be great in Heat of Battle or against numerous or high defense foes. B
Zettian Deathwings - Their ability to dart in and out and ping opponents is nice, but in order to hit hard they have to destroy themselves. B-

Also, some drops to existing rankings.

Marro Gnids -> C+
Water Elemental -> B
Shurrak -> B
How are you feeling about these rankings? If you don't have time to add them to the OP, I'm glad to do that for you within the next day or two.

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  #432  
Old August 29th, 2018, 02:53 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

It's not so much that I lack the time to add them to the OP, as much as it's that editing these big link-heavy posts is one of the tasks that I despise the most. As in, I think about it almost every time I log on to the site, and I hate the thought of doing it so much that I probably log on less often just to avoid thinking about it.

So, yes, please and thank you, you can do those edits.

I made some small changes to the post you quoted to incorporate some of the feedback, so check back there as opposed to the quoted text if you are going to do the work.
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