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  #6049  
Old November 30th, 2018, 11:01 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Those are some sweet looking minis.

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  #6050  
Old December 1st, 2018, 12:11 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Those are some sweet looking minis.
Very.

-------------

Are you waiting to see where the votes fall before considering further changes, Sir H?

If so, here are mine:

to Xundar. I think the resurrection power isn't the best it could be, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

to the Binder. Its left box stats are off.

to all the others. Still concerned that the Hound and Demon are too similar, but we'll see, I guess.

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  #6051  
Old December 1st, 2018, 10:56 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

What is the availability of the drow archmage?
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  #6052  
Old December 1st, 2018, 11:30 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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What is the availability of the drow archmage?
80+
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  #6053  
Old December 1st, 2018, 03:40 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I can vouch that xundar and the shadows are pretty impressive minis. Bar none the demon is my favorite. The pose and size of the mini is impressive. Next I really love the sculpt and size of the hound. The binder is neat and the banshee is my least fav but they work well. Xundar fits in quite well also. Overall the shadow faction is a cool lot of minis.
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  #6054  
Old December 1st, 2018, 09:39 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Though I think Scy is right that if you see bringing the shadows back as a big part of the faction, it might be justified as-is. If it's last-ditchy, there's no need for it to be so good. (And I think it is pretty last-ditchy, because why would you pass up 3 attacks of 4 for one attack of 4?)
That is the intention. This faction struggles with figure count and so as soon as you start losing 3-4 Shadows it might be worth it to start thinking about using Xundar to bring back a Shadow while spawning a shadow in their face and disrupting their position. That, or it works as a means to pull opponents to YOUR position, because they'll realize if they sit back and wait for you, you can send Xundar to blast units and bring back shadows. This hasn't worked great because it's still a very high risk, but when it has worked I've found it to be a very good reward for taking the risk. On the other hand, in MANY of my playtests a special attack of 3 just never was strong enough to get a rebirth on a consistent enough basis to take the risk UNTIL it became a last-ditch effort. 4 Attack for the special makes it a little more reliable so that you can reasonably give up the 3 attacks with Shadows to take the risk and shadow cast an opponents unit.

That all said, it sounds like enough of you are stuck on little things here or there...and many of you haven't voted, so I'll take that as a subtle nod to take these back and make a few adjustments. That said, the only following adjustments I will get behind based off of the feedback I've received are the following:
  • Binder personality --> Terrifying to match others
  • Binder class --> MAYBE change, though there is already a precedent for the name of a unit to also be it's class (Death Knights), so I'm not sold on that until I hear a better argument.
  • Demon move --> 6. For many of my tests it was at 6, but I recently moved it to 7 because of the lack of effectiveness they were bringing flying in from the startzone. They've been much better at 7, That said, 6 move will keep the price point right and isn't THAT big of a change when moving back down to 6.
  • Demon name --> Shadow Ghoul? It was voiced that Demon is a species and shouldn't also be in the name. I'm inclined to agree. Any other thoughts on this?
  • Wraith --> Att to 2. It's been talked about before, and while I disagree these guys are as good as you guys think, enough of you are giving a fit...so ill lower their effectiveness to 2 Att. Their sole purpose is manipulation anyway, so I guess it's not that big a deal, and attacking from height will give them 3 so that's still good.

Anyway. Let me know what you think. These changes aren't drastic enough for me to go back to playtesting and they've already been considered by me previously so I'll make the changes and submit again shortly (probably after I've given you guys a little time to respond if you have any other issues).
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  #6055  
Old December 1st, 2018, 09:45 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Yep, there's lot of precedent for (part of) a unit's name to be its class. Many of the Marro, especially. It just doesn't match the other guys in this faction. If the Binder was the only one being submitted, I wouldn't bring it up.

Agreed about the Demon, but I can't think of a better name.

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  #6056  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 12:48 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

For me, the issues I have are.

Binders - being able to move a figure up to 3 times during an order marker.
Wraiths - Getting up to 6 Activations with a single order marker. Just too much power.
High Defenses for Shadows...

With that being said, I think more testing is needed and you need to find a way to differentiate from Kurrok. I'd suggest a clause about taking a turn with 3 "Different" common shadow figures. This would address the ability for Binders to move a figure up to three times in an Order marker, or the Wraith's Controling heroes up to 3 times.

As is, with my Review vote for VC units, I would have to vote Nay with what I see right here. They need more polishing.

After all that is said, I believe you have something and should continue developing this faction.

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  #6057  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 12:53 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
For me, the issues I have are.

Binders - being able to move a figure up to 3 times during an order marker.
Wraiths - Getting up to 6 Activations with a single order marker. Just too much power.
High Defenses for Shadows...

With that being said, I think more testing is needed and you need to find a way to differentiate from Kurrok. I'd suggest a clause about taking a turn with 3 "Different" common shadow figures. This would address the ability for Binders to move a figure up to three times in an Order marker, or the Wraith's Controling heroes up to 3 times.

As is, with my Review vote for VC units, I would have to vote Nay with what I see right here. They need more polishing.

After all that is said, I believe you have something and should continue developing this faction.
The Binder thing is a legit concern. Something to test for.

The Wraith thing doesn't bother me. If the Wraiths succeed, they don't get an attack. It's only 3 full turns no matter what.

The similarity to Kurrok and the Elementals is also a thing to watch for. That said, I think they play differently enough, but that's for playtesting.

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google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #6058  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 01:06 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I may sound snoody, but I'm telling you guys...after ~20 tests these guys really aren't as strong as you think. They can be at times if you're able to pull off getting your army clustered and the opponent allows themselves to be clustered with you so you can get all the buffs. They play NOTHING like Kurrok and his elementals...in fact, the only viable way to play Kurrok is him with ONLY FE's. The Shadows do best with diversity and having each of the shadows in the army. for the Binder, Multiple binds of figures with the Binders can be a concern, but it is extremely difficult to pull off, especially when these guys need their activations to get attacks. I found the most effective use was getting in 1 bind and then getting 2 attacks.
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  #6059  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 02:49 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quick notes on ideas being thrown around:

Binder personality to Terrifying is a good change, though I was fine with Wild too.
I'm personally fine with Binder as a class, but if it's a concern for others, Hunter could be a thematic change.
Shadow Fiend instead of Shadow Demon?
Demon move to 6 and Wraith attack to 2 are both good changes.
Xundar's SA being made to work on normal attacks, then giving him range is a decent idea. I don't have a huge opinion either way though -- I'm just more concerned about the 4 attack (for all the reasons stated; I won't rehash them here).

I also really like the idea of making the faction Vydar. For starters, I think that gives him a lot more breathing space from Kurrok, but also makes the faction more interesting with some potential Vydar synergy (with Skahen and Command Couriers -- nothing that would change their best play style, but that would give them some fun side roles).

Also, thanks for putting up with so much feedback, Sir H. A single unit submission will always get nitpicked by the judges, and you're getting 5 times that with this submission, so thanks for working with us. And, naturally, I'm saying that as someone who does disagree with some of what you've said (if you say Kurrok+FE's is the most viable army for him, I'd say Xundar+Shadow Hounds is the most viable army for this faction, but you can still mix/match both factions well; triple Soul Manipulation chances still worry me not for turns taken, but for lava dunking; I think most of this debate is about player experience rather than power level, etc.). I know it's hard to take so much nitpicking from people who haven't played these guys much, if at all, but we've all got the same goal, and it's very telling that almost everyone who's commented has said they're really into the faction, despite quibbles.
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  #6060  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 12:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thank you for the kind words and feedback Bigga.

In regards to changing the faction to Vydar, does really nobody have an issue with a Vydar Drow?....that just seems off...Drow are inherently, well, “bad”
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