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View Poll Results: Which maneuver is most effective?
The Steamroller 14 82.35%
Mind = Flayed 3 17.65%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old April 23rd, 2013, 06:14 AM
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Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flayed

Tactical Maneuvers is a project inspired by Megasilver's Unit Debates. The premise is that an offensive maneuver will be pitted against a defensive maneuver and the result will be voted on.

This scenario was devised by myself. This time, we'll see just how much of a steamroller "The Steamroller" can be when faced with H. P. Lovecraft's worst nightmare.

Note that you may have to playtest the scenario several times in a best of three in order to get an accurate representation of the most tactically-sound maneuver.

PM me if you have an idea for a Tactical Maneuvers debate. The maneuvers may come from the Unit Strategy Reviews, or anywhere else you can find inspiration for a debate.

The index of debates can be found here.

To view the book for a unit, click on its name.


The third scenario is this:

Offensive team: The Steamroller
Spartacus – 200 points
2x Capuan Gladiators – 140 points

Defensive team: Mind = Flayed
Cxurg'gyath – 140 points
2x Mind Flayer Mastermind – 200 points


The offensive team’s objective is to take out all the Mind Flayers. Place your 1, 2, and 3 Order Markers on the Capuans for maximum initiative advantage, while placing the X marker on Spartacus to get the Move, Attack and Defence bonus for the Capuans. You might think keeping Spartacus at the back is a good idea. Heads up: it isn't. His 6 attack can be devestating, so make sure to take advantage of the Capuans' bonding.

The defensive team’s objective is to lurk behind terrain features and slowly pick off the "defenceless" gladiators. Try to Enslave Spartacus (how ironic :P) if you can. If you succeed, make sure you move him away from your units so you aren't in his threat range, and engage a nice, juicy Capuan. Cxurg'gyath has a fair chance of destroying a Capuan or two with his special, so be sure to take a few turns with him too. One last thing: whatever you do, don't let the gladiators engage, as Mind Flayers can be a bit squishy.

When one team completes its objective, that team has won.

Try playing the scenario multiple times on different maps to get a sense of which maneuver is most effective against the other. When you have finished, vote for one in this thread.

Have fun!


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  #2  
Old April 23rd, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

I predict the Steamroller wins at least 2 times out of every 3. It's just way more effective.

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  #3  
Old April 23rd, 2013, 01:58 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

In my brash stupidity, I voted on the poll before even looking at the Flayer team's cards. I tried to judge my decision based solely on my preexisting knowledge of Spartacus and the Gladiators, and I misinterpreted the text, thinking that the flayers had range and could be used as a sniper-type army.

Apparently I can't revoke my vote, though.

At any rate, the flayers would get blown out of the water. The benefits that Spartacus and the Gladiators give each other, in addition to Spartacus' attack, in addition to their sheer numbers, completely overpowers the lackluster attack of the flayers and their shoddy numbers.

8 out of 10 games for the Steamrollers.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 09:14 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_T-Steff View Post
In my brash stupidity, I voted on the poll before even looking at the Flayer team's cards. I tried to judge my decision based solely on my preexisting knowledge of Spartacus and the Gladiators, and I misinterpreted the text, thinking that the flayers had range and could be used as a sniper-type army.

Apparently I can't revoke my vote, though.

At any rate, the flayers would get blown out of the water. The benefits that Spartacus and the Gladiators give each other, in addition to Spartacus' attack, in addition to their sheer numbers, completely overpowers the lackluster attack of the flayers and their shoddy numbers.

8 out of 10 games for the Steamrollers.
You're underestimating the Mind Flayers. If you read the cards for Cxurg'gyath and the Mind Flayer Masterminds, Cxurg'gyath's special is an AOE explosion with 4 attack and 4 range that doesn't need line of sight. Hide him behind some ruins, and you have a fair chance of blasting a couple Capuans off the map in a single turn. From the probability tables, it has a 55.6% chance of destroying a Capuan, and it can affect multiple Capuans.

As for the Masterminds, their special can remove unrevealed order markers from the Capuans' card if you destroy one with it, PLUS it has 3 range and doesn't need line of sight. This stops your opponent from taking a turn with 3 Capuans and Spartacus, leaving you free to get in an extra attack without them being able to retaliate. This has a 40.7% chance of happening.

If you exploit terrain features such as ruins, trees, glaciers, stalagmites, etc., the Mind Flayers have a reasonable chance of winning. It's all about avoiding the gladiators' enhanced move of 6, because as soon as they engage, your betentacled Outer Gods will have a hard time surviving more than a turn or two.

I think this favours The Steamroller, but only just. Knocking off order markers is a pretty effective way of stopping it in its tracks.

Last edited by Deathwalker10K; April 23rd, 2013 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Grammar. Always the grammar.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 09:21 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwalker10K View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_T-Steff View Post
In my brash stupidity, I voted on the poll before even looking at the Flayer team's cards. I tried to judge my decision based solely on my preexisting knowledge of Spartacus and the Gladiators, and I misinterpreted the text, thinking that the flayers had range and could be used as a sniper-type army.

Apparently I can't revoke my vote, though.

At any rate, the flayers would get blown out of the water. The benefits that Spartacus and the Gladiators give each other, in addition to Spartacus' attack, in addition to their sheer numbers, completely overpowers the lackluster attack of the flayers and their shoddy numbers.

8 out of 10 games for the Steamrollers.
You're underestimating the Mind Flayers. If you read the cards for Cxurg'gyath and the Mind Flayer Masterminds, Cxurg'gyath's special is an AOE explosion with 4 attack and 4 range that doesn't need line of sight. Hide him behind some ruins, and you have a fair chance of blasting a couple Capuans off the map in a single turn. From the probability tables, it has a 55.6% chance of destroying a Capuan, and it can affect multiple Capuans.

As for the Masterminds, their special can remove unrevealed order markers from the Capuans' card if you destroy one with it, PLUS it has 3 range and doesn't need line of sight. This stops your opponent from taking a turn with 3 Capuans and Spartacus, leaving you free to get in an extra attack without them being able to retaliate. This has a 40.7% chance of happening.

If you exploit terrain features such as ruins, trees, glaciers, stalagmites, etc., the Mind Flayers have a reasonable chance of winning. It's all about avoiding the gladiators' enhanced move of 6, because as soon as they engage, your betentacled Outer Gods will have a hard time surviving more than a turn or two.

I think this favours The Steamroller, but only just. Knocking off order markers is a pretty effective way of stopping it in its tracks.
I don't think so. I'd agree with 8 out of 10, it's not that hard to keep from clumping the Glads up, and just 2 attacks could easily kill a MFM. Even if you hit the Psonic blast, There's a good chance you'll choose the wrong OM, and get slaughtered the next turn. And then you factor in OM juggling for the Flayers..... It's just bad..

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Old April 23rd, 2013, 09:26 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

Quote:
Originally Posted by boromir96 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwalker10K View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_T-Steff View Post
In my brash stupidity, I voted on the poll before even looking at the Flayer team's cards. I tried to judge my decision based solely on my preexisting knowledge of Spartacus and the Gladiators, and I misinterpreted the text, thinking that the flayers had range and could be used as a sniper-type army.

Apparently I can't revoke my vote, though.

At any rate, the flayers would get blown out of the water. The benefits that Spartacus and the Gladiators give each other, in addition to Spartacus' attack, in addition to their sheer numbers, completely overpowers the lackluster attack of the flayers and their shoddy numbers.

8 out of 10 games for the Steamrollers.
You're underestimating the Mind Flayers. If you read the cards for Cxurg'gyath and the Mind Flayer Masterminds, Cxurg'gyath's special is an AOE explosion with 4 attack and 4 range that doesn't need line of sight. Hide him behind some ruins, and you have a fair chance of blasting a couple Capuans off the map in a single turn. From the probability tables, it has a 55.6% chance of destroying a Capuan, and it can affect multiple Capuans.

As for the Masterminds, their special can remove unrevealed order markers from the Capuans' card if you destroy one with it, PLUS it has 3 range and doesn't need line of sight. This stops your opponent from taking a turn with 3 Capuans and Spartacus, leaving you free to get in an extra attack without them being able to retaliate. This has a 40.7% chance of happening.

If you exploit terrain features such as ruins, trees, glaciers, stalagmites, etc., the Mind Flayers have a reasonable chance of winning. It's all about avoiding the gladiators' enhanced move of 6, because as soon as they engage, your betentacled Outer Gods will have a hard time surviving more than a turn or two.

I think this favours The Steamroller, but only just. Knocking off order markers is a pretty effective way of stopping it in its tracks.
I don't think so. I'd agree with 8 out of 10, it's not that hard to keep from clumping the Glads up, and just 2 attacks could easily kill a MFM. Even if you hit the Psonic blast, There's a good chance you'll choose the wrong OM, and get slaughtered the next turn. And then you factor in OM juggling for the Flayers..... It's just bad..
Try it and see then! (That's sort of the point of these debates; to provide mini-scenarios for people to play)
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 09:36 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwalker10K View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_T-Steff View Post
In my brash stupidity, I voted on the poll before even looking at the Flayer team's cards. I tried to judge my decision based solely on my preexisting knowledge of Spartacus and the Gladiators, and I misinterpreted the text, thinking that the flayers had range and could be used as a sniper-type army.

Apparently I can't revoke my vote, though.

At any rate, the flayers would get blown out of the water. The benefits that Spartacus and the Gladiators give each other, in addition to Spartacus' attack, in addition to their sheer numbers, completely overpowers the lackluster attack of the flayers and their shoddy numbers.

8 out of 10 games for the Steamrollers.
You're underestimating the Mind Flayers. If you read the cards for Cxurg'gyath and the Mind Flayer Masterminds, Cxurg'gyath's special is an AOE explosion with 4 attack and 4 range that doesn't need line of sight. Hide him behind some ruins, and you have a fair chance of blasting a couple Capuans off the map in a single turn. From the probability tables, it has a 55.6% chance of destroying a Capuan, and it can affect multiple Capuans.

As for the Masterminds, their special can remove unrevealed order markers from the Capuans' card if you destroy one with it, PLUS it has 3 range and doesn't need line of sight. This stops your opponent from taking a turn with 3 Capuans and Spartacus, leaving you free to get in an extra attack without them being able to retaliate. This has a 40.7% chance of happening.

If you exploit terrain features such as ruins, trees, glaciers, stalagmites, etc., the Mind Flayers have a reasonable chance of winning. It's all about avoiding the gladiators' enhanced move of 6, because as soon as they engage, your betentacled Outer Gods will have a hard time surviving more than a turn or two.

I think this favours The Steamroller, but only just. Knocking off order markers is a pretty effective way of stopping it in its tracks.
Fair point. I will admit I probably should have given them a little more credit for the blast attack, but sometimes you just can't argue with numbers. I suppose it all depends on the kind of terrain we're dealing with and how each team is able to use it to its advantage.

And I would playtest this scenario, but I don't actually have any of these characters in my personal collection.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 07:17 PM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

I just got Cxurg'gyath in the mail today, I'm going to play out this scenario a bit on the Slush map by Dignan. I might add some shadows just to get some use of the Lurk in Shadows tactic.

Oof...I got nothing to sign with now

Last edited by Majora's Incarnation; July 10th, 2014 at 09:53 PM.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 02:24 AM
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Re: Tactical Maneuvers #3 - The Steamroller vs. Mind = Flaye

Your index of battles link takes us to the Capuans book.

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