The Book of Ornak

[Aldin]

The 3rd edition terminology used of "leaving engagement attack" is causing a problem that "passing swipe" did not cause in the first two editions of the rules. After re-re-reading everything including the 2nd edition rules I think it is pretty clear that a leaving engagement attack (i.e. passing swipe) is not an attack as the rules and cards refer to an attack. Thus it does not take advantage of Ornak's ability.

~Aldin, waffleman

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by Aldin

The 3rd edition terminology used of "leaving engagement attack" is causing a problem that "passing swipe" did not cause in the first two editions of the rules. After re-re-reading everything including the 2nd edition rules I think it is pretty clear that a leaving engagement attack (i.e. passing swipe) is not an attack as the rules and cards refer to an attack. Thus it does not take advantage of Ornak's ability.

~Aldin, waffleman

I admire a man who will let his careful research change his own mind. That's an increasingly rare quality in today's world. Well done, Aldin; and I think you got it right -- the event formerly known as "passing swipe" but recently going by the name of "leaving engagement attack" does not benefit from Ornak's ability or other modifiers not specifically stated on units' cards.

[gorthan313]

I think that this guy is the best flagbearer. I was able to take out Sujoah in two turns by using Ornak to bond with Krug and Mimring. Question: On Thanos's card it says that you roll for RbD 'at the start of each of your turns after Thanos has been destroyed'. So, if I use Ornak's RFoF to take two Utgar hero turns, does that mean that I get to roll twice for RbD?

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by gorthan313

I think that this guy is the best flagbearer. I was able to take out Sujoah in two turns by using Ornak to bond with Krug and Mimring. Question: On Thanos's card it says that you roll for RbD 'at the start of each of your turns after Thanos has been destroyed'. So, if I use Ornak's RFoF to take two Utgar hero turns, does that mean that I get to roll twice for RbD?

I always have played as you get to roll after you reveal an order marker (I don't remember the actual wording). I'd say that you can only roll once, but I'd wait for a definite answer.

I don't have Ornak, so it's never come up.

[stubobj]

Originally Posted by gorthan313

I think that this guy is the best flagbearer. I was able to take out Sujoah in two turns by using Ornak to bond with Krug and Mimring. Question: On Thanos's card it says that you roll for RbD 'at the start of each of your turns after Thanos has been destroyed'. So, if I use Ornak's RFoF to take two Utgar hero turns, does that mean that I get to roll twice for RbD?

You would only roll after revealing OM. If its turn 1 with Ornak you roll for Thanos. Then you choose if you if you are taking turn 1 with Ornak or with 2 other Unique Utgar Heroes.

Here's an army I've played a few times:

Ornak
Grimnak
Blade Gruts x2
Krug
Ne-Gok-Sa
Marcu
530

This is one of the many armies I've been trying for the Nebraska Skirmish coming up in a couple weeks(440range/530melee). Throw Isamu in to make it 540. The options in this army are so nice. You can easily adapt to what your opponent is doing. Its not too hard to keep the whole army moving together.

[CheddarLimbo]

Actually, you get to roll for Rejected By Death for every turn. That includes each turn activation, and again for bonding turns, frenzy, etc.

From the Marvel Questions thread.

[stubobj]

Venoc Vipers frenzy specifically states to "take another turn" so I agree with getting to roll for Thanos after every successful frenzy roll. But Ornaks RFoFA does not state this. "instead of taking that turn, you make a take a turn with 2 unique heroes...." I still believe that you wouldn't get to roll extra off of Ornaks RFoFA.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by stubobj

Venoc Vipers frenzy specifically states to "take another turn" so I agree with getting to roll for Thanos after every successful frenzy roll. But Ornaks RFoFA does not state this. "instead of taking that turn, you make a take a turn with 2 unique heroes...." I still believe that you wouldn't get to roll extra off of Ornaks RFoFA.

Actually, it says "...with up to 2 unique heroes..." making it clear that those are indeed turns, plural rather than turn, singular. CheddarLimbo is exactly correct here.

~Aldin, who tends to kill everything else before Thanos when possible

[fomox]

From the FAQ:

If I have a turn order marker on an Army Card, but every figure on the Army Card has been destroyed, can I still roll for Rejected By Death?

No. If the every figure on the Army Card is destroyed, you cannot take that turn, and Rejected By Death would never activate.

So it doesn't seem to be the revealing of the order marker, but the the actual start of a turn.

I can certainly see people rolling for it at the start of each of the two unique hero's turns, as Aldin wrote.

But it is not at all clear to me that, using that logic, the same wouldn't apply to frenzy rolls...

("Another" turn is still a turn, and it has a distinct start.)

--

[Aldin]

fomox,

I am a bit unclear on your comment. If you are saying that it seems to you that Thanos should get to roll with each Frenzy activation, that is exactly correct.

~Aldin, who thinks KoW with a Champ or two is the best way to maximize Thanos' rolls

[stubobj]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Actually, it says "...with up to 2 unique heroes..." making it clear that those are indeed turns, plural rather than turn, singular. CheddarLimbo is exactly correct here.

~Aldin, who tends to kill everything else before Thanos when possible

"If Order Marker 1 is placed on Ornak, then instead of taking that turn with Ornak, you may take a turn with up to 2 Unique Heroes you control who follow Utgar..."

I don't know why but I can't help but to read into this. The way I interpret this is that you are replacing A turn, a single turn, with up to 2 figures. Its not separate turns like bonding. Its all still one turn but with up to 2 different figures. I honestly think it could've been worded differently or at least clearer if it was 2 separate turns. Again this is most likely me reading too much into whats written there. MTG has really warped the way interperet some rules and powers. Apologies for being so stubborn.

[Aldin]

stubobj,

Pre-Thanos the distinction wasn't really necessary. In this case I can only ask that you consider if there is any game mechanic which allows for one turn to have multiple movement and attack phases. If not, then to have two heroes share a turn you would need to have them move together then attack together - making them a sort of de facto squad. In other words, interpreting that sentence as anything other than two turns, one for each hero, creates a whole new concept which the rules fail to address in any way.

~Aldin, *cough* esq.