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View Poll Results: When did C3V jump the shark?
Omegacron 1 9.09%
Quahon 1 9.09%
Arctorus 1 9.09%
The Varkaanan 0 0%
Dyer 3 (any more C3V planets lurking around?) 0 0%
Other (I'll give you an earful in the comments, never has and never will, etc) 8 72.73%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old March 15th, 2024, 11:27 PM
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When did C3V jump the shark?

Edited note: There's a great old thread that poses this question about Heroscape which you can read here: https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ght=Jump+shark Check it out! This thread is a bit more serious but it's still a fun question, I hope!

With the return of official Heroscape merchandise approaching, I thought that it might be fun to do a bit of retrospection on the VC universe up to this point. Not that it is at its end, but now seemed as good a point as any. There's been many a post about how these customs have carried a torch for the game, but I'm interested in seeing some discussion on high points and low points. I'm phrasing this thread the way it does because I'm curious if people think "jumping the shark" is something that has happened in the C3V. If so, when? Was there a watershed release that just let loose a torrent of unpalatable customs? Or perhaps an ugly duckling that sticks out like a sore thumb amongst a catalog of serviceable designs? I'd love to hear your C3V review!

I've been around on this site for maybe half of C3V's output. I've included in the poll some moments that seemed to stick out to me, but my knowledge of the whole thing is hardly complete and honestly I'm including a poll somewhat to draw some interest to the thread Please, if there's something that sticks out to you, let it be known!

Me personally, I looked through the C3V books wave by wave, and I feel that something happened around Wave 17 (the Varkaanan wave). Everything prior to this point just hits a note for me - I think it's just the way the customs feel so much like the classic scape designs and fill some of the unfilled holes in the official heroscape armies and lore (Mariedians, 9th Elf Wizard, Raptorians, Skeletons, Dredguls, lizardfolk hero), and the more original designs alongside them sing as well. I think that's what made the Vark arrival such a massive high point. It was a massive creative endeavor that melded a new lore with new game play into something completely original. A Creation of sorts (and one I think was utterly and completely successful). But after this point things just don't do it so much for me. Maybe the Varks just set my bar too high, or something. I don't know. I do think C3V has put out some great stuff since then. And I think they can put forth something that would hit each and every note and top the summit that was the Varkaanan wave: put out a master set that is tight and harmonious. That would be something, maybe it's just me, I don't know.

Yes, I get that my diatribe doesn't really follow a "jumped the shark" argument, but I wanted this thread to encourage some retrospective conversation more than sticking closely to the metaphor. Definitely not trying to insult or start any drama. At best this may give some good feedback for the VC people, at worst maybe it'll be a bit of nostalgia.


The beatings will continue until morale improves!

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Last edited by Maklar the Silver Prince; March 16th, 2024 at 10:52 AM.
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  #2  
Old March 15th, 2024, 11:33 PM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

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Old March 16th, 2024, 03:41 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

I am surprised the Cathar Spearmen aren't on there. They are the only C3V design that I actively despise playing against every single time I play against them. Everything else, Varkaanans, Vulcanmechs, Quahon, the Varja, Tomb Guards, Haduc, I've had games where I played against them, and had a good time. All of the designs I mentioned have their issues, and situations where they are just, not fun to fight. The Cathar though, just really stick out as never being a design that I even want to play with. I think their theme is neat. I think they look neat. I hate playing with them. I think their execution is the most obviously disappointing of any design the C3V has ever released. I would rather fight a Q9+Raelin+Rats cheese army than Cathar. Not because they can't be beat, but because of how much effort it takes to make it a fair fight.

I could talk about other designs, but nothing else in C3V is so personally egregious that I would prefer I never saw it at a tournament again. Everything else, despite their flaws, is welcome at my table. And I mean, I'm being dramatic here. I'd let someone who really wanted to play with the Cathar, play them against me. I just know I won't have much fun playing that game.
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  #4  
Old March 16th, 2024, 07:13 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

I recently looked at the waves when reviewing my own Ages of Heroscape. Here is what I had to say:

Due the nature of designing based on available minis as well as the ad hoc nature of the SOV a few interesting trends developed. The first is that a lot of the early synergy harked back to classic scape, which is not surprising since it is a fan project after all. Secondly, a lot of units are self contained like the Civil war soldiers and Buccaneers. Third, I was surprised to see synergy spread across the whole project like the Thrawls, Rouges, Mariedian, Demons, and Outlaws. Finally in the recent ages, it does seem the project really started to focus on building cohesive armies later in the project which more closely mimicked classic ages with the Wildwoods, the Monks and Xundar and the shadows.

I’m very impressed by the project as a whole, and it is interesting looking back to see how it has grown and changed just based on which units were released as it became less a fan project and more something that can really stand on its own. IF I had to pick a point, I would say the launch of the Varkaanan’s would be the critical moment of change.

So I've not seen the quality drop or the ideas run out, and looking at the figure list looks like some awesome factors are on their way.


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  #5  
Old March 16th, 2024, 07:48 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

I took a look through the C3V ways to try and figure out what this is asking about, and have no clue what you could possibly be referring to... I haven't gotten in to VC until after the Haslab failed, but I have as much love for some units from wave 23 (Ataraxis, Ranjit Singh, and Goblin Slashers - even if they're bad) as I do for some units from waves 14 and 15 (Haduc and the Incendiborgs). Seems as though it's been fairly consistent to me, if not improving.
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  #6  
Old March 16th, 2024, 08:43 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

Stupid clickbait title aside... Not everything is going to work for everybody. Nature of the game. So yes there are some VC designs that don't fully resonate with me.
  • Omegacron and Elaria have created some unfortunate rules headaches that are actually pretty minor in the grand scheme
  • Thralls have a cool theme but could be better than, on average, an expensive two-figure squad (hopeful Necromage Elbda can help with this)
  • Vulcanmech Incendiborgs are one of my favorites, but in hindsight with new developments a decade later perhaps could have been a candidate for 2-Life Unique Squad
  • Arashara Goshiri, Knights of Blackgaard, and others are too expensive
  • Quahon's Lightning Breath should fork instead of extending twice to hit figures up to nine spaces away
  • Kantono Daishi is a boring rehash of faction-leader synergy
  • Cathar Spearmen's Braced Spears should only work against Large & Huge figures (improving both theme and fun)
  • Brute Gruts are too cheap
  • Banshees and Buccaneers coming in the same pack at the same price feels wrong
  • Uzog has the same memory issues as Alastair and Eldgrim
  • Plenty of figures just aren't my playstyle or have other reasons they won't see my table as often as everything else

But a lot of that is me nitpicking for the sake of it. Plus that said, I highly disagree that any of this amounts to this thread's title. None of these issues is much more than personal preference, nor game breaking. If 80-point Raelin and 50-point Marro Warriors didn't do it in RotV, VC certainly hasn't either.


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  #7  
Old March 16th, 2024, 09:15 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

I had remembered Quahon on my list but forgotten the Cathar, a great point. Another moment in history I had forgotten was the Zettian Deathwings and their 4 powers. There's a good number of little head-turning moments like that throughout the life of the project. Which is interesting because part of C3V's ethos, it has always seemed, is not to break too far from the design spaces that had already been established.

Availability of miniatures is obviously a huge factor in what can be done, and for the most part C3V has made that work as well could be hoped, I think. Personal taste and preference too are obviously a huge factor in my OP. I just don't see the need for another 4 man goblin squad, I don't get a lot of the newer sci-fi stuff (seems like sci-fi for the sake of sci-fi, which I suppose is a valid theme), and the pirate squad has always just felt like a miss to me, even if all of that has some interesting gameplay.

I suppose you release more units than the original game, and you're going to end up in a slightly different spot than you started!

The beatings will continue until morale improves!

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Old March 16th, 2024, 09:21 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

Heroscape complete I wrote this 10 years ago, and my revised opinion appears 5 years later further below in the comments.

As mentioned VC really matured since the varks able to stand on its own. Unlike Official scape which stated out perfect in my opinion follows by a stretch of mediocre, then again rising to heights with SotM and wave 9,, or D&D which was all over rocky, VC has been steadily improving or remaining consistently high.

It remains to be seen if AoA can continue this trend, but for me it is not as good as the beginning or end of classic scape, but better that D&D scape. Maybe on par with the middle waves - we will see.


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  #9  
Old March 16th, 2024, 10:03 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ght=Jump+shark
By the way, I finally found this thread's predecessor. I knew I had seen this question posed before, it wasn't just a fever dream. It's a fun thread, jump back in time why don't you.

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Old March 16th, 2024, 10:30 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

Oh man … some names I haven’t seen in a while on there … Aldin … MrBistro …

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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Old March 16th, 2024, 11:58 AM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

I want to correct my answer... Around cormin the dark, if not there then definitely by Swaysil.


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Old March 16th, 2024, 12:05 PM
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Re: When did C3V jump the shark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I want to correct my answer... Around cormin the dark, if not there then definitely by Swaysil.
Cormin the Dark is a very weak point in the SoV. Low power level, clunky weird power that doesn't have things work out very well. Don't entirely know how he made it thru - if I could do it again the design would be different, or most probably just never submitted.

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