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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#133
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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That said, I don't think we can go with Queen as a class. Seeing an Elven Queen bond with Crypt Guardians from Feylund would be like seeing a Marro bonding with a Viper squad in my eyes, so I really think that we should choose a different, non-synergistic class. Quote:
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We also have examples of units like Q10 who are entirely dedicated to a certain purpose. Given that movement is a major theme for the Elves, I don't think that it's weird for an Elven leader to boost the movement of them in two ways. Thanks for pointing this out. I think that it's a theme-break for her to bond with Crypt Guardians. I don't buy the cross between Elves and Undead for a queen here. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#134
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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#135
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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I suppose that you could argue that Ullar was similarly trying to help Vydar or vice versa, but I've never felt that strong of a link between the two and it still doesn't feel quite right to me to say that this Elven Queen is perfectly okay with leading an undead army into battle. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#136
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
Considering Scytale is an SoV judge, his opinion is going to carry more weight here for me.
Remember we are designing for SoV and the only opinions that really matter are those of the Judges. |
#137
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
Well met! Quote:
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#138
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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I don't expect people to agree with me or anything, but I don't think that dismissing a concern because of one judge's opinion without the chance for any discussion over it is healthy for the project. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#139
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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That said, I do agree with Scytale on the Queen class here. I don't think that "has incidental synergy with X" and "thematically would want to work with X" are equivalent. If we were going out of our way to make an elf that works with undead then that would be a different story, but as-is I don't think this is enough of a problem to make Queen an unworkable class. |
#141
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
That's neither a rebuttal to nor an accurate representation of what anyone here has said.
Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#142
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
Having fun and making an SoV-worthy design are both important parts of this process. I think the important thing to note here is that the SoV judges are not popping in here in order to drop vague cryptic hints as to the only kinds of design they will allow to pass review. They are making genuine observations and evaluations of the unit, and giving suggestions for what they think is a good idea. Choosing not to use the suggestion of an SoV judge is not going to be an auto-fail with that judge, so long as the option we do go with has its own merits. The judges are looking for excellently-designed units, not their favorite units or units that they personally would make.
On that topic, I would like to bring up another SoV nominee that was recently rejected, Superfrog's Agrah Fenh, which featured a power nearly identical to Elven Battle Call. I will link the two reviews, both of which were Nay to induct. 1. 2. Since it's very likely that we'll be using Elven Battle Call on this design going forward, these reviews are incredibly useful to us, as they help define exactly how much tension we can or can't use. That tension lies in, once this figure is engaged, do you place OMs on her or on the figures that she's boosting? Does that choice feel tactically interesting, or is it linear, obvious, or frustrating? This actually strikes me as an argument to keep some version of Ullar's Battle Dance on the card, as having another cheerleader power to gain value is a good way to prevent the figure from leaning too hard on the tension of Elven Battle Call. Potentially, this could make for interesting choices for both players--do you move into engagement to try and get the benefit of both powers, knowing that your opponent could concentrate attacks on this figure? Or, if you hang back, does your opponent try and rush in to deal with her, knowing that by engaging her they will be giving your elves a movement boost? How do these decisions play out in different matchups? This, to me, is a decent reason to keep both powers, but even if we decide to cut one, that tension is something we should keep in mind. |
#143
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
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This can be combatted significantly with Ullar's Battle Dance, especially if it lets her still move into engagement, but if it's a once-per-turn power then the player may be mostly focused on moving her instead of the Elves themselves. If the tension is proving to be unfun, then I definitely think that Elven Battle Call should be adjusted before Ullar's Battle Dance. We might find that normal Elven Leadership feels better when tied with the defensive power, or that the Battle Dance alone will be enough to keep the unit in an active role on the battlefield. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#144
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla--Draft Chosen!
After some thinking on the discussion, I think we should finalize what our version of Ullar's Battle Dance should be going forward. For reference, the current power:
ULLAR'S BATTLE DANCE After rolling defense dice for a figure that you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Listaria who follows Ullar, you may move another figure that you control who follows Ullar up to 4 spaces. If a figure moving with Ullar's Battle Dance is engaged when it starts to move, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Ullar's Battle Dance can only be used once per turn. Major holes in this power are triggering off of special attacks, and lack of clarity as to whether our figure can trigger the power off of her own defense dice or use it to move herself. Possible updated version: ULLAR'S BATTLE DANCE After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure for Listaria or a figure that you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Listaria who follows Ullar, you may move another figure that you control who follows Ullar up to 4 spaces. If a figure moving with Ullar's Battle Dance is engaged when it starts to move, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Ullar's Battle Dance can only be used once per turn. Listaria may move herself with this special power. It's worth noting that, depending on the wording we use, we can adjust this in a number of ways, such as allowing attacks on this figure to trigger the power for other figures but not to move her, or vice-versa. And of course we could exclude this figure from the power altogether and leave it as a buff she gives to other figures. A side note, while name isn't strictly important, it would be nice to start calling the figure something other than "this figure," so any suggestions on that front are welcome. Finally, I think we should delve into core statline a little bit. Currently we have: 8 M 1 R 5 A 4 D 5 L Of this spread, Move and Range are fine--I have a slight preference for 7 move as I don't think a wolf should quite equal a warhorse, but it's a mythical snow wolf so whatever. 5A 4D 5L strikes me as a bit too solid and consistent a spread for a figure that is this much of a cheerleader. My personal preference would be: 4 or 5 A 3 D 6 L The high life number still gives respect to the figure's armored nature, but 3D will make them less frustrating to play against for low-attack units and more consistent to take down for opponents who want to deprive you of her bonuses. As for attack, I don't have a major problem with 5A, but I worry we might be pushing it too high in our efforts to make a hybrid unit. If a better option is usually your elf squads, then 5A is going to feel kind of out of place most of the time. This may be something we have to feel out in testing, though. |
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