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  #37  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hex706f726368
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Originally Posted by endpawn
Well your math comparison of the points is fine but it doesnt really include the whole point of the hive. With the hive sitting back in your starting zone your opponent has to come to you. This pretty much forces them to use a lesser strategy to move fully across the board and deal with your hive. They have to give up board position and come to you while you can set up your stingers in good spots defensively.

If instead they try to fight all your stingers and then go for the hive its a war of attrition and the marro army has the advantage. Stingers stand up pound for pound against pretty much anything and you are bringing them back to life on top.
I think you missed my point. I'm not going to bother with your hive in your starting zone. I don't expect you to get enough turns to clone enough marros for it to matter. More than likely, I'm going to outrange you (stingers range = 5) anyway. I'm going to try to draw your stingers out of the 12 LOS range. Then you can either forgo useful attacks while I pick off your stingers and try to clone them back or you can fight me pound for pound at a 160 point disadvantage.
...Of course, if you're a good hive player, you'll just park the Stingers on the 12th space. That's usually enough room to hit most of the map on competetive tournament maps, for a total of 17 spaces! Besides, the Hive player will be expecting it, so they'll divide order markers accordingly. And while you're trying to outrange me, I'll be sitting there waiting for you, ready to hit you with my 10 threat range.

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  #38  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
...Of course, if you're a good hive player, you'll just park the Stingers on the 12th space. That's usually enough room to hit most of the map on competetive tournament maps, for a total of 17 spaces! Besides, the Hive player will be expecting it, so they'll divide order markers accordingly. And while you're trying to outrange me, I'll be sitting there waiting for you, ready to hit you with my 10 threat range.
I'll have to count the available spaces with LOS 12 from the starting zone on some more maps I guess. The only thing I see that is going to draw an opponent into that 12 LOS and 17 space threat range is glyphs. I don't use them as much, so maybe that's where we are seeing things differently.

A 10 threat range is the worst in the game. The stingers strength is in their punch. Against a good player, that's should be a counter-punch unless you can successfully tie up the units that out range them. Parking is not a viable option, imo. I still think you're going to have to come to your opponent if you field stingers. And if you split order markers so you can clone once in a while...well...every turn my opponent takes where I don't lose a unit is a fairly successful turn, imo.

Don't get me wrong, I like the hive. It's fun. I just don't see it as a competitive piece, yet. Hopefully the Marro Calvary coming change my mind.
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  #39  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hex706f726368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
...Of course, if you're a good hive player, you'll just park the Stingers on the 12th space. That's usually enough room to hit most of the map on competetive tournament maps, for a total of 17 spaces! Besides, the Hive player will be expecting it, so they'll divide order markers accordingly. And while you're trying to outrange me, I'll be sitting there waiting for you, ready to hit you with my 10 threat range.
I'll have to count the available spaces with LOS 12 from the starting zone on some more maps I guess. The only thing I see that is going to draw an opponent into that 12 LOS and 17 space threat range is glyphs. I don't use them as much, so maybe that's where we are seeing things differently.

A 10 threat range is the worst in the game. The stingers strength is in their punch. Against a good player, that's should be a counter-punch unless you can successfully tie up the units that out range them. Parking is not a viable option, imo. I still think you're going to have to come to your opponent if you field stingers. And if you split order markers so you can clone once in a while...well...every turn my opponent takes where I don't lose a unit is a fairly successful turn, imo.

Don't get me wrong, I like the hive. It's fun. I just don't see it as a competitive piece, yet. Hopefully the Marro Calvary coming change my mind.
They only have to start the turn within the 12 LOS spaces, so factor in them moving closer as well which means a 22 range from the hive for that one turn, next turn could be used to pull them back again, and then the move forward again once they're back in the 12 LOS spaces.

Also, if you just hang back to pull them out of range of the hive that gives the hive a lot more chances to respawn any marro you kill.

A quick, strong squad or hero who can run in and kill the hive before they're killed is ideal since then you could hang back and shoot the marro from superior range retreating whenever they get too close.
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  #40  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 07:58 PM
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Good point Carr, Isamu, and Shiori would all be ideal for sneaking in and taking out the hive. All three would really make their point cost for doing that.
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  #41  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiranx
Good point Carr, Isamu, and Shiori would all be ideal for sneaking in and taking out the hive. All three would really make their point cost for doing that.
Of course, all three will get obliterated by Stingers.

The user formerly known as Bloody the Marro Stinger!
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  #42  
Old October 22nd, 2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind Lane
Also, if you just hang back to pull them out of range of the hive that gives the hive a lot more chances to respawn any marro you kill.
True. Really, the opposing player has to decide which of the hive's two powers is more dangerous to him. If you fear the rebirth more, you have to get within the 12 control spaces to shoot the hive and stop the reinforcements. If the control scares you and makes you hang back, the hive will be able to give birth uncontested.

Undead armies might be a good (or at least intimidating) counter to regeneration-based marro. The zombies and vampires can feed on Nagrubs, and both Life Drain and Zombies Rise Again can steal the resources the hive produces. Same goes for water clones.
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  #43  
Old October 23rd, 2007, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind Lane
Also, if you just hang back to pull them out of range of the hive that gives the hive a lot more chances to respawn any marro you kill.
True. Really, the opposing player has to decide which of the hive's two powers is more dangerous to him. If you fear the rebirth more, you have to get within the 12 control spaces to shoot the hive and stop the reinforcements. If the control scares you and makes you hang back, the hive will be able to give birth uncontested.

Undead armies might be a good (or at least intimidating) counter to regeneration-based marro. The zombies and vampires can feed on Nagrubs, and both Life Drain and Zombies Rise Again can steal the resources the hive produces. Same goes for water clones.
That sounds like it'd be a lot of fun to play, from either side even. On the one hand you'd have a vast swarm of shooters and other nasties that can be reborn for free and on the other you have an army that's feeling hungry and likes the idea of fresh foods.
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  #44  
Old November 6th, 2007, 09:11 AM
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I was really excited about the Marro Hive but after play testing it a few times I’m pretty under whelmed by its performance. Regenerating units, allowing order marker flexibility, and just being plain cool seemed to make the Hive a sure winner. As I play I eventually always wish I’d taken the 160 points I spend on the hive and just bought more of whatever unit I’m trying to bring back. For the hive to even start to pull its massive weight it has to regenerate 8 Marro Stingers or 9 Drudge / Drones to break even on points spent. (based on points per unit in the squad)

Also 40% success rate of regenerating fallen Marro units is pretty bad honestly. If you spend the points to just always have extra units you can always be sure of your reserves instead of having to rely on the fickle fate of dice rolls. More than half the time you’ll fail at exactly the reason why you brought the giant lump to begin with! So those 8 or 9 units you’re going to need back to justify the hives cost are going to take a long time coming if your luck is even slightly below average.

The order marker consolidation also is a bit of a failure for me as well as it requires line of sight. If your maps are all plain open fields sure this isn’t an issue but I always have plenty of terrain in the way of starting zones. Compound that with the fact the hive can’t ever move as well. If the Hive didn’t need line of sight to each individual unit being moved this wouldn’t be a problem, but it does, and it is. Also in a common heavy army (which a Hive army always will be) order marker management shouldn’t be your biggest problem to begin with now should it?

The hive while interesting primarily adds up to an expensive piece of terrain to me.
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  #45  
Old November 7th, 2007, 11:23 AM
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I am getting SOTM for my birthday, and the day of I'm going to play it with my friend. Reading these reviews and thinking how I could utilize it, well, it all comes down to one thing. Although it is 160 points, you don't really need to draft 4 or 5 squads of Marro Drones, just 3 or 4 (three if you're risky or don't buy lots of common doubles/triples/etc.), and can still have the devastating 9 character move and attack, because of the Hive mind. However, as others have pointed out, the distance is a problem. On large scale maps 12 hexes isn't that far, and it isn't worth a whole turn to just regenerate one guy, and even then it's a 13 or higher roll, so you might not get him at all.

But because of it's large size and fairly high point value, I would assume it a major target, like Charos or Su-Bak-Na. So if you keep (a squad of marro drudge, for instance) near the hive, you should be able to defend the hive and move and attack with the marro drudge and regenerate one of them all in one turn! I might add Kelda to the army to heal the hive, though...

I'm not entirely sure! I'm new to the marro hive.
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  #46  
Old November 7th, 2007, 11:49 AM
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I would normally say no to the hive. DOn't get me wrong, it looks amazing and it's abilities are fun, but I think it just has no place in a 500 pt game. Too expensive and it dies too quickly. Although in the last tournament I was in a guy palced 4th I believe and used the hive with stingers in a 465 pt tourney with like 50 people in it. So it does do well occasionally. Never use Kelda. Order markers are much better when used to kill an opponent rather than heal you.
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  #47  
Old November 7th, 2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandin
I am getting SOTM for my birthday, and the day of I'm going to play it with my friend. Reading these reviews and thinking how I could utilize it, well, it all comes down to one thing. Although it is 160 points, you don't really need to draft 4 or 5 squads of Marro Drones, just 3 or 4 (three if you're risky or don't buy lots of common doubles/triples/etc.), and can still have the devastating 9 character move and attack, because of the Hive mind. However, as others have pointed out, the distance is a problem. On large scale maps 12 hexes isn't that far, and it isn't worth a whole turn to just regenerate one guy, and even then it's a 13 or higher roll, so you might not get him at all.

But because of it's large size and fairly high point value, I would assume it a major target, like Charos or Su-Bak-Na. So if you keep (a squad of marro drudge, for instance) near the hive, you should be able to defend the hive and move and attack with the marro drudge and regenerate one of them all in one turn! I might add Kelda to the army to heal the hive, though...

I'm not entirely sure! I'm new to the marro hive.
I’ll totally agree that the Hive can save you $ in a way that you don’t have to own scads of common squads to play it, but you do have to have a lot more than the SoTM set provides to make it really useful so it’s kinda the same in end depending on how you buy your Commons. Also the combo of Hive + Kelda is 240 pts, that’s 6(!) Squads worth of Stingers you could have from the get go. Not something most people (or myself) will have but something to consider all the same.
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  #48  
Old November 10th, 2007, 03:54 PM
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I don't know if this was touched on before or not? With the hive and his hive mind power; if you choose the nagrubs to take a "turn" with, do you get to bond with a hivelord as well?

It does say that all figures must be within 12 spaces???
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