Age of Annihilation - Backer Trend and Discussion

[AMIS]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I've been vocal on the FB on the issues I've had with this campaign.

For me, the biggest deterrent from backing it is there's just nothing for me in that set outside of maybe the nicer walls. As a C3G guy, I have no need for any of the figures. But sure, maybe I go through the trouble to resell them and instead go in for the terrain. However, outside of those fancy new walls, I have all of that terrain. I have bins filled with it, more than I'll ever need.

Had they offered more unique terrain that we could design around or that looks super cool, hey, now you may have my interest in biting the bullet here. But that's not the case. All the terrain is as standard as it gets. So for me, as a long time player and supporter, I'm basically being asked to throw money away if I want the chance of new cool things down the road. Which even that, isn't a guarantee. For all we know we're just getting more greatest hits as far as terrain is concerned. Fresh lava and sand and snow, with no real unique objects or terrain at play. So it's been pretty lackluster from every angle, both in terms of appealing to new fans and torchbearers whove already amassed a collection of this stuff.

All of this could have been alleviated if they had options. If I could have just bought the terrain, even with the stuff I don't really need, for $100 let's say, and then help back it in the process, I would have done so by now, just in hopes of a more interesting future and new possibilities for us to design around.

I hope them saying they're listening, they are aware of their shortcomings, and that they plan to course correct as soon as realistically feasible, means we actually see a shift in approach here. But action means everything here, from their end first, if they then want action from ours.

Nicer terrain, Jungle terrain and a bunch (71) of new figures (granted all of them are unique) is what they're trying to sell. It's not a bad attempt but doesn't hit their public marketing goals IMHO.

Can't help but feel that a 15-20 painted figure set, with jungle and island terrain, based on pirates for about $120-150 would have fit the entire mold of their marketing to new consumers, family's and the group of plasticrack addicts that live on this site...Would we have all been asking for more? Absolutley, we're the addicts. But at this point it's not going to change - either the campaign or the addict thingy.



I believe they're listening but hoping this sneaks through.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Also, sorry, not to drive the point home too much, but whenever you ask them about the goal that's been set so high, they talk about the cost of metal tooling and production and so forth. That sounds like a campaign that needs to raise a certain amount of money to me.

This isnt restoration games. This isnt a group of guys starting a small agile company. This is a branch of a huge company answerable to share holders.

This campaign can't be good enough for the passionate designers to make their game a reality, this has to meet corperate goals and milestones, they have a business case to follow and match.

I'm sure the start up cost is part of the business case, and in my experience the larger the company the less willing to spend money without promised returns.

[FrankensteinsMonster]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

The uniques clogged up shelf space in classic because they were bundled 1:1 with commons. They’ve said commons are on the way - I don’t think that mistake will be repeated when they are.

Also, RE: store shelves - I would extremely doubt these will be on Walmart shelves again. This is going to be in FLGS, where big purchases like this are, mostly, par for the course.

Yes, The initial master sets were also an affordable $40 (paint equaling a higher labor/production cost back then than unpainted miniatures- simply talking cost, not groveling about them not being painted) or less and I remember no FLGS would carry it as this forum had many responses of talking to the game stores and getting laughed at or turned down, even asking to bring our own sets in to try and entice the owners and customers. Back then, it was at a wonderful impulse buy price and at a far more accessible location (many small towns are near a Walmart while many small towns cannot sustain a FLGS due to minimal demand). Now, it’s $250 (what will FLGS mark ups be to keep their lights on…or how cheaply will Hasbro sell it to them to keep sale price at or around $250 in store, which means the campaign participants - and sole reason this would get produced- are paying the premium), all uniques and you know those getting into it will not pop $500 just to make a bigger map; especially in this downturned economy.

Much higher cost, far less accessible locations, far lower chance of risking money to try the game, less chance of the game being gifted to someone, etcetera, etcetera.

That’s where I’m going here.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by wriggz

This isnt restoration games. This isnt a group of guys starting a small agile company. This is a branch of a huge company answerable to share holders.

This campaign can't be good enough for the passionate designers to make their game a reality, this has to meet corperate goals and milestones, they have a business case to follow and match.

I'm sure the start up cost is part of the business case, and in my experience the larger the company the less willing to spend money without promised returns.

If their business case is based on selling this in its least profitable form, I’m not sure they have a very good business case.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

If their business case is based on selling this in its least profitable form, Im not sure they have a very good business case.

Fair enough. I never said I thought it was right or smart, just that I'm fairly sure I understand it.

[GamerDad74]

Whether this fails or succeeds, I hope one of the War Council will at least tell us what Hasbro was thinking with this um, interesting campaign model. I doubt it, but it would be nice to know because I'm completely at a loss.

[CapAp]

I don’t have any lava or jungle, and I’d have backed a terrain-only level

[Pumpkin_King]

I mean, I’ll admit that the campaign has some issues, but I don’t think it’s totally beyond the pale.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

I mean, I’ll admit that the campaign has some issues, but I don’t think it’s totally beyond the pale.

I'm curious how so many people think $250 is too much money for AoA, but Allthingsheroscape's entire store is currently either sold out or has less than three copies of any of the remaining units available, not to mention what ebay's sold listings are showing sales wise. Have all those people already backed a copy of AoA? Is the paint really worth that much more money?

Another way to word the lack of a smaller tier option is.....would people spend $100-125 on arena of the Planeswalkers now if it came with a Marvel master set amount of tiles?

[SuperSamyon]

As the campaign continues to underperform, I would ask that everyone please pledge responsibly. There's a lot of bad advice circling the Discord and now Facebook page encouraging people to borrow money or use a PayPal payment plan to fund multiple purchases of the game. REMEMBER: It is never a wise decision to borrow money for entertainment nor is it responsible to sacrifice your financial freedom just so you can fill the coffers of a billion dollar corporation.

Two months ago you never would have thought Heroscape would make a big return. You got through life fine before and you'll get through life again once all of this is over. Take a moment to step back and remember that there are people getting paid to worry about this campaign succeeding or not succeeding. I suggest you leave the worrying to them and find ways to fill your day in healthy fashion so you don't feel tempted to make poor financial decisions.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

As the campaign continues to underperform, I would ask that everyone please pledge responsibly. There's a lot of bad advice circling the Discord and now Facebook page encouraging people to borrow money or use a PayPal payment plan to fund multiple purchases of the game. REMEMBER: It is never a wise decision to borrow money for entertainment nor is it responsible to sacrifice your financial freedom just so you can fill the coffers of a billion dollar corporation.

Two months ago you never would have thought Heroscape would make a big return. You got through life fine before and you'll get through life again once all of this is over. Take a moment to step back and remember that there are people getting paid to worry about this campaign succeeding or not succeeding. I suggest you leave the worrying to them and find ways to fill your day in healthy fashion so you don't feel tempted to make poor financial decisions.

I fully agree. We don't want to see a load of people realize they overspent and then back out on four of the five they agreed to buy. That's another thing I'm afraid of with the amount of sets i'm seeing some people saying they're ordering.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think the PayPal payment plan has interest tacked on. There's still over a month before a first payment would be made. I don't know the details, but I don't think five monthly payments of $55~ for one set is unwise or a massive loan to take on. Just know your life monthly budget, of course, but that's less then $2 a day.

It's been stated that AH is not looking for or requiring people to purchase multiple sets. I'm sure they want to see 8-16K separate people willing to spent $250 in a year to show there's a sizeable fanbase for expansions to be worthwhile. I don't think Kickstarters offer delayed payment plans without interest, but I don't know either. That's something they should consider making more obviously aware though.

I'll update if some of the PayPal payment info I have is wrong.

[Knox]

IMO, this set is a fantastic value and it's almost everything I want. $250 for the amount we're getting in this set is an absolute heist for the tabletop gaming market. IMO it's genuinely unbelievable how much is included/ the cost-per-unit or cost-per-piece.

That said, the campaign model is TERRIBLE. Just soooo bad. They know the community isn't large enough for 8k individual purchases (much less 16k) and you need a lower entry point to entice new buyers. Not to mention all the issues with people wanting to buy multiple but it not being worth it.