The Book of Red Hulk (Spirit of Vengeance)

[Yodaking]

Yeah, I prefer after moving on the chain grab. That was my first thought when reading it, but I figured you wanted to keep the points low for some reason at the time. Now that we're talking a 450 range figure, after moving is much more useful.

[Lord Pyre]

Power set looks fine, he DOES seem a bit weak though. Being an amalgam of 3 terrifying characters, I think he needs to be way more juiced! First of all pump his attack up to 7 or 8.

Then....

SYMBIOTIC CHAIN SLINGER
Red Hulk has the species of Symbiote in addition to what is listed on this card. At any point during Red Hulk's move, you may choose an enemy figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Red Hulk and place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to Red Hulk. That figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

That way he can drag anyone anywhere.

Also Vengeance Smash is too conditional to be scary. SMASHY SMASHY

VENGEANCE SMASH 3
Anytime an opponent's Unique Hero destroys a Unique Herofigure you control with a normal or special attack, you may place the destroyed figure on the attacking Hero's Army Card this Army Card. When attacking an adjacent figure with his normal attack, Red Hulk may attack 1 additional time for each figure placed on this card by this special power, up to a maximum of 3 additional attacks. adds 1 to his Attack number for each figure placed on the chosen figure's card by this special power, up to a maximum of +3.

Basically that mini is terrifying to look at, and I wanna be terrified when he comes flying at me. Obviously I don't actually know this character at all. So do what you will.

[Ronin]

Yeah, attack's already going up to 8.

An early version of the card had the "At any point" style grab, but it adds more text/complexity than I especially want. I think just having it after moving is enough to juice it a bit. (And that's when you'd want to use it most of the time anyway, I imagine?)

If we went something like that route you and YK are suggesting on Vengeance Smash, I'd limit it more. Make him remove figures when he used the bonus, or at the end of the round, or something. Makes it a bit less like Rage Smash and Penance Stare, but I worry that since there's no tension in choosing to use the bonus (you always want to attack and you always want a better attack rather than a worse one) it'd be kinda flat gameplay if he just powered up and then stayed that way.

(With Rage Smash on Hulk there's an element of him being strongest when he's closest to death, which is a fun tension, but this wouldn't have that)

[Arch-vile]

I feel similarly to LP. Nothing wrong with the design with your updates (and I appreciate the updates), but the description for this guy seems like more in the Ghost Rider (370) + Red Hulk (380) level, rather than just a tiny bit stronger than either one individually.

With your removing figure at the end of each round suggestion, we could go with something like this.

VENGEANCE SMASH 3
Anytime an opponent's figure destroys a figure you control with an attack or special power, you may place the destroyed figure on this Army Card. When attacking an adjacent figure with his normal attack, Red Hulk may attack 1 additional time for each figure placed on this card by this special power, up to a maximum of 3 additional attacks. At the end of each round, if Red Hulk attacked more than once in a turn, remove 1 figure from this Army Card.

Or do a marker system (or just put the figures on the opponent's card like your initial draft), so he's most furious against people that kill his allies.

VENGEANCE SMASH 3
Anytime an opponent's Unique Hero destroys a figure you control with an attack or special power, you may place a red Vengeance Marker on that Unique Hero's Army Card. When attacking a figure with a Vengeance Marker on its card with his normal attack, Red Hulk may attack one additional time for each Vengeance Marker on its card, to a maximum of three additional attacks.

[Ronin]

I'd very strongly prefer to not do a multi-attack.

It just doesn't really evoke anything about the character for me. And I think it's kind of a feel-bad for certain armies to go up against a multi-attacker with an Attack number as big as his (alternatively, some figures like MD types wouldn't really give a crap about him).

If we wanted to do something besides a straight-up-and-down attack boost, I'd rather look for inspiration on cards like Red Hulk and Sentry and find ways to layer auto-wounds onto his attack or something.

[Lord Pyre]

I get not wanting a multi attack. I just want this guy to be super scary, and the current power just... isn’t.

[Arch-vile]

Yeah, no problem with going a different direction. I just felt this needed a bit more oomph somewhere - doesn't really matter how that happens.

[Tornado]

What about

VENGEANCE SMASH 3
Anytime an opponent's Unique Hero destroys a figure you control with an attack or special power, you may place a red Vengeance Marker on that Unique Hero's Army Card. When attacking an adjacent figure with a Vengeance Marker on it's card with Red Hulk's normal attack, each shield rolled counts as 1 additional skull.

[Ronin]

Shields-as-skulls just doesn't feel real smash-y to me.

Apologies for being a bit radio-silent here! Noisy neighbors have been impacting my sleep and I've been prioritizing my Poison initial with remaining C3G energy.

Updated the SP with the changes so far.

Something I was thinking about for Vengeance Smash was reframing the power entirely as an SA instead of a normal attack booster. Something like:

VENGEANCE SMASH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 7.
Choose an adjacent figure to attack. All figures within X spaces of the defending figure, other than Red Hulk, are also affected by this special attack. X is the number of Unique Heroes in your army that were destroyed by an opponent's attack or special power, to a maximum of 3. Affected figures roll defense dice separately.

Puts a different tool in his belt, and the fact that there's some trade-off with his normal makes me more okay with the static boosting. (Which is also neat in this case because the gradual-power-up thing means it's not an SZ bombing threat like most big AoE specials)

The way that's shouting out the figures' destruction after-the-fact instead of using them as markers adds a bit of a memory effect, but I usually remember how my figures were destroyed, so I don't think it's a big issue.

[Lord Pyre]

Love it.

[Tornado]

Why not just place the destroyed figures on your card?

[Ronin]

Too complex to be viable in an SA. For my tastes, anyway. Nothing stopping you from just tracking it that way yourself if you like, but "did an opponent destroy that figure" seemed like an easy enough thing to remember (even if you entirely forget that Red Hulk is in your army and you're not keeping track) that I don't think tracking it through markers/figures is essential.