The Book of Grim Reaper (Public Playtesting)

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Make Grim Reaper's thing happen after that unit's thing and it doesn't really seem like a problem. They'll play well together, but not any better than any other Terrorist piece would play with #1003.

Okay, I see what the concern is now. I wasn't really too worried about #1003 because he only chooses one Terrorist, but opening that up to a wider range of units wasn't something I was thinking much about. I agree the easiest solution would be to just have Grim add the class of Terrorist to units after #1003 chooses one, but I'm not sure how to word that. Don't want to mess with Viper's counting of Terrorist for the initiative boost power.

[Dr. Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Anywhere in the 180-220 range I think would be pretty good for him in terms of army building, I was worried he'd be seen as much higher with the full bonding, 6 life, and healing. I'm personally super excited about the 1st and 3rd powers here. 2nd Power just gives him an auto-wound option when facing those who are hard to wound or can be used to try and overwhelm the opponent by taking away their OM's while bonding with his own. As such I don't see them as competing but rather some flexibility in attacking different units/army builds. 1st power then makes him an OM hub for, and recruiter of, Terrorist. Which puts him in the leadership role rather than sidekick. 3rd power helps keep him alive if he's attacking, so he would be a front line leader. He's only a mid tier leader though and as such he teams up well with other leaders in this corner of C3G. Lots of exciting army building opportunities here.

OG Legion: Grim Reaper, Swordsman (Fighter), Man-Ape (Fighter?), Atlas (Imbalance), Living Laser (Criminal)
Brothers Breaking Bad: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man (Imbalance), +3 Criminals/Mercs
Morally Grey Brothers: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Wolverine (Fighter), Moon Knight (Fighter), Swordsman
West Coast Redemption: Grim Reaper, Wonder Man, Tigra (Fighter), Thing II (Fighter)
Viper joins the Legion: Grim Reaper, Viper (Terrorist), Batroc (Merc), Pile Driver (Criminal), Bulldozer (Criminal)
Grim goes to Madripoor: Grim Reaper, Viper, Silver Samurai (Merc), Wolverine, Crossbones (Terrorist)
Hydra Adjacent: Grim, Viper, Crossbones, Gorgon, Absorbing Man (Criminal), Baron Von Strucker,
Hydra & the Hand: Grim, Viper, Elektra (Assassin), Hand Ninja x2, Gorgon, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Full Hydra: Grim, BVS, Hydra Agents x3, Gorgon, Crossbones, + Criminal/Merc/Terrorist
Skull and the Legion: Grim, Red Skull II, Crossbones, Living Laser, Swordsman
Legion Masters Team-Up: Grim, Crossbones, Baron Zemo, Whirlwind (Criminal) + 3 Criminal/Merc/Terrorist

I haven't spent this much time thinking about fun armies I could build in a long time.

These teams sound awesome!

[Dr. Jekyll]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

I still feel that calling out 3 classes and a special power is too much.

Hopefully I can draw you over to the dark side, I think it would be fun, a lot of combinations to try out.

[tcglkn]

We have designs that choose 4 classes for JLA, but the only one that also picks a power is still on deck and only chooses 2 classes with a special power and I think that's much more reasonable

[IAmBatman]

Fwiw, I'm against including Fighter here. I think a second, more villainous version of Swordsman is completely doable, and I saw the army builds suggested, but none of them sell me on the idea that Thing or Luke Cage or Wolverine is now a terrorist working with HYDRA and the like.

If the goal is for him to be someone who works with Heroes and Villains both, that's cool, but branding a bunch of Heroes as Terrorists doesn't really work for me thematically. So if you want a Hero/Villain faction bridge, I'd base it on a different class.

[Dr. Jekyll]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Fwiw, I'm against including Fighter here. I think a second, more villainous version of Swordsman is completely doable, and I saw the army builds suggested, but none of them sell me on the idea that Thing or Luke Cage or Wolverine is now a terrorist working with HYDRA and the like.

If the goal is for him to be someone who works with Heroes and Villains both, that's cool, but branding a bunch of Heroes as Terrorists doesn't really work for me thematically. So if you want a Hero/Villain faction bridge, I'd base it on a different class.

I see where you are coming from on this, Thing and Luke Cage have never technically joined HYDRA, Wolverine on the other hand has worked with HYDRA on more than one occasion.

HYDRA has been know to work with heroes without them really knowing like Cap and the such. I wouldn't mind making another Wolverine based on his time in HYDRA either if this does not fly.

[tcglkn]

I'm definitely in favor of dropping Fighter here and just adding Swordsman and Wolverine later.

[Dr. Jekyll]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

I'm definitely in favor of dropping Fighter here and just adding Swordsman and Wolverine later.

I'm feeling like that is the general consensus, I don't mind making more characters

[IAmBatman]

Likewise. I think Fighter just muddles the design, especially if they keep their Fighter class and synergies.

[japes]

I agree on not liking fighter here.

Also I'm very much against the "in addition to what is listed on their card" Approach. That starts adding too much to track and Balance. Luke Cage and Wolverine getting both Terrorist and Fighter synergies for instance. Not to mention the combos of Criminal and Terrorist and Mercenary and Terrorist. Working together is fine but getting both benefits is dangerous usually.

[IAmBatman]

It'd definitely be a lot easier to test and control without worrying about stacking faction bonuses.

[Dr. Jekyll]

I'll have to think on that one, losing Viper's benefits would kinda suck