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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.

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  #1  
Old October 31st, 2007, 12:31 PM
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draft tournament possible???

This isn't really a specific army discussion, but I figured it migth fit better here than most any other forum.

I have been thinking through some possible tournament variants trying to come up with something new and a bit different.

A draft game has long been thought of as not possible in a tournament setting. So I might be a little ambitious in my thoughts, but this is something I think has some merit and would be fun.

--

A two pack draft tournament.

Each player brings the figures and cards from either two expansion packs or a single master set.(SOTM or ROTV) Single flag bearers or promo figures would count as an expansion. (so one player might bring ROTV and the other player might bring Heroes of Bleakwood and Gruts)

Both players layout what they brought and then they draft to the selected point amount (say 400-450) by normal draft rules.

This would add game time because of the draft but the pool would be small and the decisions quick. So maybe 15 minutes draft time and 45 minutes game time. If the points values are kept smallish it could work. Small sand timers coudl be used for drafting, but really with few units to choose from, it should go pretty quick.

- you play a different army each time
- introduces draft strategy to a tournament setting
- swarm armies will be very hard to come by
- you could end up losing to the figures you brought.

Just the beginning stages of thought but something that I think could be refined enough to give it a go.

--
Anybody play in a draft tournament before? Any thoughts regarding?

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  #2  
Old October 31st, 2007, 12:59 PM
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I really like this idea. (I just mentioned in the Q9/X17 thread that this game is pretty unique and fun in a drafting situation.)

Would large expansions count as just one or two? (How would Orm's Return and Raknar's Vision fit in all this?)

As an optional rule, if playing on a specific terrain map, could the terrain-specific guys always be available? For example, there would be 2 Dumutef Guards, and 1 squad of Obsidian Guards available on Ember Canyon Road. (Or, getting really crazy now- would the Master Set figures be available on the map as normal 1 RotV or SotM based maps would have those as default, and all the regular players would just bring their two boosters?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
- you play a different army each time
Fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
- introduces draft strategy to a tournament setting
Something that seems noticeably absent from most tournaments, but nevertheless seems like very much a part of Heroscape to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
- swarm armies will be very hard to come by
A nice change from the army I brought to the TTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
- you could end up losing to the figures you brought.
This is perhaps the best excuse not to bring Raknar's Vision.

I really like this idea, and I'd like to see it get fleshed out and nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #3  
Old October 31st, 2007, 01:12 PM
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This sounds fun. Now go and do it Texans, and tell us how it works. :P
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  #4  
Old October 31st, 2007, 01:40 PM
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*chuckle*

If you both bring a couple packs of Grut Orcs those are gonna be some mighty low point cost armies

I like the idea a lot. It seems to favor the Master Sets quite a bit. How about each player brings two expansions and gets to split one MS between them (either RotV or SotM as determined by a random die roll before drafting)? Otherwise it's just too dicey to bring common squads at all (think of what happens when you bring two packs of Grut Orcs and they bring two packs of Romans - blech).

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  #5  
Old October 31st, 2007, 01:43 PM
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Sounds like a pretty cool idea, but with the issue Jexik brought up, I think that a MS should count as 3 expansions, and large expansions should count as 2, and everyone brings 3. If it is a 400 pt game and each person brings 2 VV/Omnicron packs, you would not be able to make a full 400 pt army at all.
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  #6  
Old October 31st, 2007, 01:48 PM
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I thinik the idea definitely has some merit.

One concern is that people are going to bring figures to draft from that they likely want to draft. So there's a good possibility that each player is simply drafting from their own pool of figures and there is less interaction than the tournament structure might suggest.

One tweak I might suggest:

If you take 2 of each common and one of each unique figure (excluding Marvel) you've got just over 14K points. Assuming you had a complete set of figures for each 12-18 players in the tournament, you could have 6-9 batches of 1500 or 2000 points army pools for each player to draft their 500 point army.

This idea still covers your first 3 points. The last is nice but the least important in mind.

This also isn't limiting to new players with a limited pool of figures.

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  #7  
Old October 31st, 2007, 02:36 PM
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What about bringing an entire wave (4 expansions; 1 of each) or a master set. You would get more options, but wouldn't have to worry about being low on points and swarms would still be almost impossible.

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  #8  
Old October 31st, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Detrimentalman and I are doing a 20 card draft on our next game day. I don't know whose idea was the 20 card draft method but I think it would work well for a tournament. Each player brings any 20 cards that they can draft from for each game.
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  #9  
Old October 31st, 2007, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allskulls
Detrimentalman and I are doing a 20 card draft on our next game day. I don't know whose idea was the 20 card draft method but I think it would work well for a tournament. Each player brings any 20 cards that they can draft from for each game.
So you only draft from your own cards? It prevents people from stealing 'your' units, but also makes people decide on an interesting balance of Uniques vs. Commons, assuming of course that 3x Roman Legionaires would take up 3 of your 20 cards, for example.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #10  
Old October 31st, 2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
Would large expansions count as just one or two? (How would Orm's Return and Raknar's Vision fit in all this?)
I was thinking they would count as 1, but you guys have me re-thinking. (which is why I posted; thanks!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
As an optional rule, if playing on a specific terrain map, could the terrain-specific guys always be available? For example, there would be 2 Dumutef Guards, and 1 squad of Obsidian Guards available on Ember Canyon Road. (Or, getting really crazy now- would the Master Set figures be available on the map as normal 1 RotV or SotM based maps would have those as default, and all the regular players would just bring their two boosters?)
I absolutely love the terrain specific guys to map idea! It wouldn’t be that hard to implement, the assigned map maker would bring the corresponding terrain specific guys for the map. Those units would stay with the map through the day. I like!

As far as including an entire master for each map, the simplicity I was hoping for is lost in that equation. That is a great many figures to bring and set up. It would increase the depth of the draft pool but it would also probably increase the draft time. IMO, less if more for the type of event I have in mind. If there are new players they only have to familiarize themselves with a handful of cards. It is also less to bring, less to set up, less clutter on the tables, quicker draft decisions, etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin
How about each player brings two expansions and gets to split one MS between them (either RotV or SotM as determined by a random die roll before drafting)? Otherwise it's just too dicey to bring common squads at all (think of what happens when you bring two packs of Grut Orcs and they bring two packs of Romans - blech).
It would be bleh, but I really think that possibility takes care of itself. Players would want to bring units they like with the hopes of being able to draft an army the want to play. Again, I can't see having a master at each table; the idea is great and I would certainly be on board with something like that. But that is really not what I was going for with the pack draft concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmishBurrito
Sounds like a pretty cool idea, but with the issue Jexik brought up, I think that a MS should count as 3 expansions, and large expansions should count as 2, and everyone brings 3.
Bingo! This is it. A player brings a total of 3. Master = 3, Large hero = 2, small boosters = 1. This would yield the balance between having a good pool to draft from yet still being on a small scale. Add in the terrain specific guys and good to go. This is about what I had in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmiles
One concern is that people are going to bring figures to draft from that they likely want to draft. So there's a good possibility that each player is simply drafting from their own pool of figures and there is less interaction than the tournament structure might suggest.
Maybe, but if I show up with the Kaemon Awa hero pack and my opponent doesn't keep me from taking K.Awa, then that is their problem. I think what you will see is people bringing what they want to play, then trying to snag or deny some of what their opponent brought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmiles
If you take 2 of each common and one of each unique figure (excluding Marvel) you've got just over 14K points. Assuming you had a complete set of figures for each 12-18 players in the tournament, you could have 6-9 batches of 1500 or 2000 points army pools for each player to draft their 500 point army.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi1hi1hi1hi1
What about bringing an entire wave (4 expansions; 1 of each) or a master set. You would get more options, but wouldn't have to worry about being low on points and swarms would still be almost impossible.
Again, this is a great concept but just not what I had in mind. I envisioned everyone keeping up with their own figures for the day. I like the terrain specific guys as it at least gets them out of storage and on the table. Having a complete SOTM and ROTV for each table is just a scale beyond my vision. I would love to see a tournament like that, I just wouldn't want to set it up or run it .

I think the 3 point system is great! That combined with the terrain specific guys should all but eliminate the possibility of armies that don’t meet a 400-450 pt. It would still keeps things small but it would allow for some flexibility in what a player wants to see in the games.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas; give me more!

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  #11  
Old October 31st, 2007, 03:19 PM
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It'd be interesting if you could draft from your opponent's selection also though. Maybe bring fifteen cards each instead of 20, for a total draw pool of 30 cards. Each player would have to think long and hard about what cards to bring to the pool, knowing a player's opponent might draft a critical unit they were counting on.


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  #12  
Old October 31st, 2007, 03:27 PM
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Drafting from the opponent's pool as well as your own is a key component for me.

Bringing cards only you can select from is just a form of side boarding, with a slight draft counter flare. Not a bad idea, but certainly not what I had in mind.

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