The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Shiftrex]

Some updates that make this guy stand out, thought I would check in for a temperature reading.

[MegaSilver]

Thanks to @superfrog for making the card for Feral Swog!



What happens to those Swogs when their Riders get killed? For those not captured, they go Feral into Aquilla's forests. Though if captured by Orcs, they still remember their training.

Beast Training is written to be re-useable by other Creatures who could be treated as Beasts. The wording is based off the replacement effects occasionally used by C3G.

Swift Strike SA is meant to represent surprise attacks. And to give Spiders access to a SA. I could see it renamed to Feral Swipe but again wanted it to be re-useable.

Disengage because Swog Rider has disengage.

I also wanted to create the Swogs due to seeing the cool mini, and wanting to give Spiders and Arrow Gruts a midrange cost hero for bonding to round out points if they didn't have space/figures for another squad in their armies.

Cost reference comparisons to Nerak.

The mini for this figure is Smilodon (Sabertooth Tiger) - Kingmaker #30 Pathfinder Battles.

Size comparison photos to Swog Rider:

Spoiler Alert!

[Scytale]

Fo-To-Ki-Ro is looking pretty good. Stats are decent, left- and right-sides, and the powers are interesting. I don't think Mutant Resistance is a necessary addition and the design would be cleaner without it, but it isn't bad. I would prefer if you renamed it Resistance 1 to make it more generally useful.

The Feral Swog is solid. The pictures sell it as a Swog, and the design is pretty cool. Beast Training is a clever way to give it syngery possibilities between both Predator and Beast. Swift Strike Special Attack isn't much different than First Strike in practice, but giving a cheap special attack bonding hero to Orcs and Spiders has value.

[Sir Heroscape]

Mr Fo is cool.

Couple thoughts:
- I don't like the restriction on his inability to attack figures more than once unless it's large or huge. That seems like a blatant way to just keep him from being too strong against medium heroes or squaddies without any other design reason. What's the thematic reasoning that would make this ability work that way? Additionally, I don't understand the power name. What does Multi-Arms Race mean? Are you suggesting his Race (mutant) is a multi-armed race and therefore that's why he gets more attacks? I just don't think it makes clear sense. I'd prefer something simpler like the way the Hydra was handled. Just call it "Grafted Arms", "Extra Arms" or "Multi-Arms". a name like that is very clearly understood

- I agree the last ability is unnecessary. Take that away and you've got a much tighter design.

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Love the swog. It's one of those customs that just "feels right"... 'nough said.

[Shiftrex]

Because the mutant is voracious. It has multiple arms and heads that just want to eat. It cant focus on pummeling down one foe unless it is big enough to draw its attention. Afterall, it isnt trying to squash you because it hates you. Its hangry

As for the ability name, Quozl made that a few pages back because it's a pun on the term: Arms Race

I'll drop the mutant resistance, made him really threatening to q9 but if it doesnt fit then I get it.

[Sheep]

I’ll nitpick the Feral Swog a little bit and it’s a sad one really.

I don’t like it as an Uncommon Hero. In a perfect world, the Swog Rider would’ve been Uncommon and this would be Common off of that. I just don’t like this thing having “Life” where the Rider doesn’t. Seems like it should just be Common as well.

For Fo, Augamo already has Stony Resistance that does something else so I would suggest a different name than resistance. Unless resistance is just a term that does “something” to negate special attacks. In which Mutant Resistance could stay as is.

[Dad_Scaper]

"Arms Race" is self-referential in a way that I do not think you find on other cards. It is a Munchkin joke, which was funny in Q's post, but is not consistent with the lexicon of actual Heroscape cards. I do not care for it.

I am also curious about the mini. Does anyone actually have it? Height 11 puts it in rare company. Is it really that big? How is it based?

[Dad_Scaper]

I like Feral Swog. It's a tight design, and Beast Training is a clever addition to the canon. I would prefer to see it as a common hero, though, consistent with its mounted cousin.

[MegaSilver]

@Dad_Scaper @heroscaper2010 Well, the common heroes have always felt lackluster to me. Swog Rider isn't always used, even in Arrow Grut builds. And some goes for most of the common Heroes. I want it to feel worth the cost to bring it. And, this mini is chunky compared to the Swog Rider, so one health on it seems disappointing to me. I'm sure stuff like the Dumutef Guard would have been Uncommon Heroes if such things existed at the time.

I wanted the Feral Swog to be closer to Nerak in terms of usefulness than the Swog Rider.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Because the mutant is voracious. It has multiple arms and heads that just want to eat. It cant focus on pummeling down one foe unless it is big enough to draw its attention. Afterall, it isnt trying to squash you because it hates you. Its hangry

I think I prefer Mindless here then. Gobble and Graft already gives us the theme that he’s hungry and wants to just eat stuff. Mindless helps add to that theme I think. He’s mindlessly swinging around at anything and everything.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

@Dad_Scaper @heroscaper2010 Well, the common heroes have always felt lackluster to me. Swog Rider isn't always used, even in Arrow Grut builds. And some goes for most of the common Heroes. I want it to feel worth the cost to bring it. And, this mini is chunky compared to the Swog Rider, so one health on it seems disappointing to me. I'm sure stuff like the Dumutef Guard would have been Uncommon Heroes if such things existed at the time.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think that that subjective perspective justifies the jarring departure from the clear precedent.

It's a clever, tight design, and you put this oddity on it in an effort to retrofit something you don't like in the canon. It goes from an A+ design to one that I couldn't support, which makes me a little sad.

As I see it, and this comes up over and over and over again when I look at people's designs, the theme and the mini should inform the way in which the mechanics interact with the canon. Those two things are upstream, so to speak, from considerations of mechanics and the synergy web. Designers looking to add units to the canon often seem to start with "what gap in the canon is there that I can fill," and go from there. Designs like that often wear it on their sleeves, and end up looking inelegant, at best, or clumsy, at worst.

Which has very little to do with this one, as I see it. Like I said, but for the canon problem I've already pointed out, I think this one is A+ work. I am particularly fond of Beast Training. I squeezed some thoughts about design in general into this post anyway.

[MegaSilver]

However, if it becomes a common hero, it'll compete with the Swog Rider in Arrow Grut builds. As I mentioned in an edit, the intent is for this to be closer to Nerak in terms of usefulness than Swog Rider. So does that mean it'll need to become a Unique Hero to do that?