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  #433  
Old June 13th, 2022, 04:13 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Congrats to Flash_19 and Aeon, the newest WoS map!
Woo-hoo!

That makes 13 choice maps and counting.
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  #434  
Old June 13th, 2022, 07:21 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Congrats to Flash_19 and Aeon, the newest WoS map!
thanks!

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  #435  
Old June 19th, 2022, 12:17 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Go ahead and remove The End of the Line from the reviews. I've been testing it a little more and made some significant changes to the build.

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  #436  
Old July 6th, 2022, 01:54 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Forest Fire
This map is definitely one of the best RotV, VW, and RttFF maps that Iíve seen. However, in its current form, I donít believe it is quite ready for WoS Ė though in my mind it is very close.

My largest issues with the map boils down to the level 1 road forming essentially two canyons through the horizontal and vertical middle of the map (the height differences here matter Ė with changes being 2 or 3 levels between road and elevated lava field tiles). Canyons on a map arenít always a negative thing, but I do believe Forest Fire takes it just a touch too far with two such canyons on the map (for an example of a map that has a canyon, yet still functions very well, see Dry Season). Canyons like these are hard to traverse already, and when they are combined with lava, it leads to those positions on the map not seeing as much play. These two canyons therefore contribute to games largely taking place in the same portions of the map Ė the sides out by the glyphs. I think the center of the map sees less use than I would expect or hope to see.

I do like the sides overall (which is good considering thatís where most of the game happens), but I think I would like it more if there was a level 2 pathway through the sides where the level 3 road tiles branch off the main road. Iím not sure that will be necessary though if the middle is brought up to level 2 or adjusted in a way that encourages more development into that part of the map. Superfrog and I workshopped some specific ideas for the center that I believe would improve the map significantly.

In short, side to side traversal is difficult. Forward movement can be difficult too, particularly with some speed bumps and lava field canyons for lower movement melee to struggle through.
The map is strategic and engaging and Iíd love to see a version in the WoS, but for now I vote


Turmoil
Superfrog has created an excellent map here. The flow of the map is beautiful, and I love the level 2 shadow pathway - it interacts really well with the distribution of height through the middle of the map. I will say, I donít normally love glyphs on level 0 (see the end of this review for a deeper explanation of this), but I think the LOS blockers here help to provide some cover from the middle of the map.

The map has nice clear start zones, a fantastic aesthetic, well-placed LOS blockers, and it plays great. It checks all the boxes for me.



Spoiler Alert!



Dry Season
This map is a well-designed classic. The canyon through the middle works to create some interesting decisions regarding development, yet it isnít overwhelming to try and navigate units from one side to the other if necessary. Overall, the map is simple, yet reliably effective.

Perhaps the largest downside is that you canít run 4x Marrden Hounds. But then, is that really a downside?


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  #437  
Old July 6th, 2022, 04:58 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Forest Fire by Unseen_Shadowz

Flash and I played a few games against each other on this map in the last few weeks so many of our thoughts overlap. I concur with his opinion, and will offer a few further thoughts below:

Contrary to Mike, I do think this map suffers from a bit of “oops, all lava”. Most of the games I’ve played and watched, the lava 7-hexes were either barely nibbled at or ignored altogether. This especially came into play on the left lava 7-hex. That particular perch isn’t on the way to any helpful places and it doesn’t threaten any important spots especially since nobody uses the center lateral road.

So while I did find the sides interesting to play, the rest of the map felt lacking in terms of pathing. I do agree that some tweaks can make Forest Fire a winner but it’s not quite there as it stands. I vote to induct.

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  #438  
Old July 6th, 2022, 05:32 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

The Borogoves is now on the clock. I also updated the first post with two big changes.

First, thanks to both GameBear and superfrog for their respective contributions felt in order. GameBear completely redid all our old links so that the links open directly to the post within the thread. And superfrog has redone build instructions and created high-quality renders and topdowns for many of our inducted maps. The display thread looks as great as it does thanks to him. Thanks GameBear and superfrog!

Second, I rewrote/reorganized our regulations. I cut irrelevant information and completely reorganized them. My update passed yesterday, so here are the new regulations (in the first post):

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
By-laws of the Wargrounds of Scape
Map Nominations

1. Anyone can nominate a map for consideration. A map must have been played at a minimum of 2 tournaments (6+ players, announced in advance on Heroscapers), in its most recent iteration, before it can be nominated to the WoS.
2. Nominations MUST include:
A. A PDF link to the build instructions; and
B. Links to the two tournaments it was used at (no link necessary if it was used at GenCon or ScapeCon).
3. Nominations should also include any necessary stipulations as to the intended use of power or treasure glyphs, the intended use of specific or recommended glyphs (or a specific or recommended glyph pool), or the intended use of heavy snow or slippery ice.

Map Guidelines

1. Although there is no strict terrain limit for submitted maps, standard map-building rules apply. Maps should include a 24-hex starting zone.
2. Uncapped FotA columns and the Marvel ruin (with or without the second level) are permitted, and the 6-space Hive tile can be used without the Hive.
3. If the map contains glyphs, it may designate random glyphs, or it may stipulate specific glyphs. Please specify whether Treasure glyphs or Power glyphs are intended. Released C3V glyphs may be used.

Judging Criteria

1. Judges may not vote on their own maps.
2. Judges may vote "no" based on their initial impressions of the map, but they are expected to base any "yes" votes on playing experience.
3. Maps will be judged subjectively by each judge on the quality of play in 1v1 games.
4. Consideration may be given to aesthetics, whether the start zone accommodates the Marro Hive, build stability, ease of construction, the footprint, the terrain sets used, and other such factors.

Judging Procedure

1. Maps that receive a super-majority of 75% of votes will be added to the list of approved maps.
2. Maps are accepted or rejected based on the votes that have been cast (75% yes required) when the timer runs out (or if acceptance or rejection is impossible given the current votes).
3. A 4-month timer will run on the 6 oldest nominees in the queue. Once a map on the timer is inducted or rejected, the timer will begin on the next oldest nomination.

Map Updates & Removals

1. If a map receives an update, it may be nominated for an update following the normal map nomination procedure. If the updated map passes, it is inducted into the WoS, and it replaces the original map.
2. A map that is part of the WoS may also be nominated for reconsideration if it is believed that it no longer belongs on a list of the best maps in use by the community. Again, the map will be judged as if it has been nominated anew, and if it fails, it is removed from the WoS.

Self-Governance

1. Current judges are: 1Mmirg, Dignan, dok, Flash_19, OEAO, and superfrog.
2. Judges will maintain their position unless they fail to submit at least 1 vote on a map within an 8-month period during which there were outstanding votes to make.
3. New judges will be added by a majority vote of votes cast within a 2-week period following the nomination.
4. These bylaws may be changed and amended at any time by a 75% majority of votes cast within a 2-week period following the proposal.
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  #439  
Old July 7th, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Even more today!

The Borogroves
Typhon may not have been the first to implement the staple element of this mapís design Ė low ground through the middle boosted by both shadow and jungle Ė but this map did it most effectively. Itís a clever way for boosting melee in matchups against range.

The map isnít perfect, but range versus melee is well balanced, and I think it works overall. I donít love the glyph locations (being able to move through that lane uninterrupted would be awesome), but there isnít a better spot on the map for glyphs. Itís a highly strategic map, and Iíve enjoyed my games on it. However, I definitely watched like one too many 10 Points Under games played on this map.




Ruined City
I think Leaf It has done great work here considering the terrain requirements. However, despite the impressiveness of the build considering the limited terrain used, itís not quite where I want it to be. It is close though.

I would like the map more if it was even just a couple hexes longer. I think more hexes between start zones on this map is worth sacrificing some of the width of the map Ė which will ultimately be a positive anyway, because the sides of the map donít see very much use from my experience. Currently, 5 move figures could reach and attack in the opponentís start zone in 2 turns. Such a short distance allows units to get into the action quickly, which can lead to thrilling and intense games. However, I think swingy plays in the beginning of a game tend to have a larger impact on the game as a whole on such a small map.

I think a couple of the LOS blockers Ė primarily the walls in the middle could be placed just a little bit better to limit some of the power of a few hexes on the board that are on height but not adjacent to road (not that all height needs to be adjacent to road).

Lastly, I had a game on this map that was really frustrating. Iím not sure it will be representative of otherís experience, but with start zones so close together, Iím sure it will arise more often than on other maps. My opponent was able to plug up the right exit from my start zone with one figure. That figure acted as a tether Ė keeping my units from exiting the start zone and being able to develop into the board. Iím not sure that others have seen that problem, but I think itís important to consider on a map that only has two fairly narrow paths out of the start zone.

Iíd love to see this one reworked just a touch.




Trouble Once Lurked Beneath
I used to strongly dislike this map, but my opinion has softened with time. Still, I donít think itís WoS worthy. I am going to disagree with Mike about how well the road here interacts with the highest points of the map. Perhaps this map was one of the first to encourage road interaction with height, but it still falls short of doing it as well as I would expect for a map with as much level four and level five height as this has. Once an army claims a hill, it feels too difficult to displace. And fast-moving range particularly love maps like this Ė lots of elevation changes, and not a lot of road access to the highest points of the map. As a side note, going right isnít as bad as it looks, though I still feel like I see most people pull left out of the start zone Ė I could be wrong about those observations though.

Again, itís a good map and itís grown on me, but not enough for an upvote.




Parallel
I think Mike leans a little more to being against the 6-hex glacier than I do, but I agree with his argument here for this map design and what would improve it. Parallel is really good, but it feels too congested around those glaciers Ė and the problem is exacerbated by the location of the single glacier pieces in conjunction with the ruins. The proximity of all of those LOS blockers in such a linear manner makes that portion of the map feel more difficult to move through than it should.

I still like the map and wouldnít be sad to see it at a tournament.


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  #440  
Old July 8th, 2022, 12:10 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Second and third posts are updated with all those reviews, and Aeon has been added to the display thread.

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  #441  
Old July 13th, 2022, 02:58 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

I'm a little late on Forest Fire (was out of town), but I'll add my thoughts on it as well:

I like the look and most of the play on Forest Fire, but I agree with what my colleagues have said about canyons and limited movement forward. Beyond that, a few well-placed Reavers (often with height as well) can really tie up critical paths. The roads felt unnecessarily hard to navigate. The edges of the map also felt challenging, with many one space access points (again, easily tied up and blocked).

The start zones felt off balance, with most armies pulling left (there are some exceptions that liked the ruins). The lava splitting the start zone felt unnecessary.

This is a strong map with great lateral movement and LOS blockers. I would have voted NAY, but I hope we see it again.

--

Turmoil is an excellent map with meaningful cover, pathing, and mobile play. I have found all parts of the map in play in most games. This map has the opposite issue from Forest Fire has, with forward motion boosted but lateral motion quite difficult. Cover, shadow, and relative height, though, allows an army enough protection to move into play. Fortunately the glyphs, while hard to reach laterally, are quite low and easily contestable (perhaps a bit too much as Flash_19 mentioned), but I am prefer glyphs changing hands with some frequency.

I vote YES to induct Turmoil.
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  #442  
Old July 14th, 2022, 06:53 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Turmoil takes a terrain combo that I've always disliked in the past and finds a really enjoyable way to use it. I like that this map features a lot of smaller sub-hills that aren't right in the middle of the map, something that I think a lot of modern maps are missing and something that is welcome in the metagame. Despite this, I find it's very easy to contest all of the height thanks to the very efficient pathing on the map. I'm often impressed by how much of the map ends up getting used when playing on this one. The single spaced trees in the middle don't do a ton here in terms of LoS blocking, but that's probably the price you pay for the pathing. YES to induct.
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  #443  
Old July 15th, 2022, 12:57 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Yay

With 4/5 votes in (since I’m not voting), that makes Turmoil our 14th WoS map!

I’ll get the op updated in a few days, but the timer has now started on Hellsgate.

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  #444  
Old July 15th, 2022, 11:23 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Yay

With 4/5 votes in (since Iím not voting), that makes Turmoil our 14th WoS map!

Iíll get the op updated in a few days, but the timer has now started on Hellsgate.
Congrats superfrog!

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