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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.

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  #18397  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:22 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

to everything Soundwarp is saying right now.
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  #18398  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:33 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Judge Death did suffer a strange, sad fate.

Punisher's main issue is the triple attack with assault rifle, which kind of overshadows the rest of the card. You could remove the other two powers from the card and he's nearly as good.

I use the Armored Piercing Rocket quite a bit but I couldn't tell you the last time I used his Auto Shotgun SA. I think I may have used it once on a horde of common troops. I like the power itself and would like to see it pop up on another card where it was the main draw, it just gets overshadowed on his card.
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  #18399  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:47 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd say Punisher was fine - he's on the strong side, but he's fine. The only niggle I'd say is he should be 190 points rather than 180.
Eh, I don't think he's super broken or anything, but he is more than a tad juiced. The random 5 life instead of 4 bit always struck me as needlessly overpowering at least.
Can we please stop with the 'Humans should always have 4 Life' argument? That's the baseline, but it's never been enforced as the Life of Humans. It can and is changeable based on how they work and how hardy they are, as Punisher, Zangief, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Shang-Chi and many, many others I've probably missed agree.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Judge Death did suffer a strange, sad fate.

Punisher's main issue is the triple attack with assault rifle, which kind of overshadows the rest of the card. You could remove the other two powers from the card and he's nearly as good.

I use the Armored Piercing Rocket quite a bit but I couldn't tell you the last time I used his Auto Shotgun SA. I think I may have used it once on a horde of common troops. I like the power itself and would like to see it pop up on another card where it was the main draw, it just gets overshadowed on his card.
Same there - I use Assault Rifle and Armour Piercing Rocket just about every game with him, but I can't remember ever using Auto Shotgun


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  #18400  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:54 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Not sure what Zangief's deal is, but all those others you've listed are either enhanced humans or they have pseudo-mystical martial arts stuff going on (like, if you poke through their wikis, you'll generally see stuff like 'can turn off pain and control bleeding and yadda yadda'). Frank isn't tough in a way that we normally represent with increased life.

EDIT: Of course, that's just how I personally make sense of the various 5-Life humans and might not reflect the original intent. I always kind of assumed that line of thinking was behind giving a lot of the martial artist types 5 life, though.

Last edited by Ronin; April 25th, 2017 at 06:15 PM.
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  #18401  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:56 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd say Punisher was fine - he's on the strong side, but he's fine. The only niggle I'd say is he should be 190 points rather than 180.
Eh, I don't think he's super broken or anything, but he is more than a tad juiced. The random 5 life instead of 4 bit always struck me as needlessly overpowering at least.
Can we please stop with the 'Humans should always have 4 Life' argument? That's the baseline, but it's never been enforced as the Life of Humans. It can and is changeable based on how they work and how hardy they are, as Punisher, Zangief, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Shang-Chi and many, many others I've probably missed agree.
That wasn't my argument at all, so sure I can 'stop' supporting an idea I think is stupid and never supported in the first place.


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  #18402  
Old April 25th, 2017, 05:58 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd say Punisher was fine - he's on the strong side, but he's fine. The only niggle I'd say is he should be 190 points rather than 180.
Eh, I don't think he's super broken or anything, but he is more than a tad juiced. The random 5 life instead of 4 bit always struck me as needlessly overpowering at least.
Can we please stop with the 'Humans should always have 4 Life' argument? That's the baseline, but it's never been enforced as the Life of Humans. It can and is changeable based on how they work and how hardy they are, as Punisher, Zangief, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Shang-Chi and many, many others I've probably missed agree.
That wasn't my argument at all, so sure I can 'stop' supporting an idea I think is stupid and never supported in the first place.
Sorry, it's just I keep hearing that all over the place so I assumed that's where you're coming from. I really genuinely think the game benefits from the variety offered by having 4 as a baseline but having 5 represent guys who are that much tougher.


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  #18403  
Old April 25th, 2017, 06:45 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Frank isn't tough in a way that we normally represent with increased life.
Wasn't Punisher given 5 life to represent his body armor?
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  #18404  
Old April 25th, 2017, 06:48 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by L0B5T3R View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Frank isn't tough in a way that we normally represent with increased life.
Wasn't Punisher given 5 life to represent his body armor?
That's more the job of the 5 defence - I always thought it was a good way of showing that he's a bit of a psycho badass who may feel pain but doesn't give a crap and just keeps trucking.


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  #18405  
Old April 25th, 2017, 07:01 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0B5T3R View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Frank isn't tough in a way that we normally represent with increased life.
Wasn't Punisher given 5 life to represent his body armor?
That's more the job of the 5 defense - I always thought it was a good way of showing that he's a bit of a psycho badass who may feel pain but doesn't give a crap and just keeps trucking.
Yeah I always took it as representing the fact that Punisher will push himself to finish his target off, despite having taken enough bullets to kill a normal man.

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  #18406  
Old April 26th, 2017, 07:53 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
EDIT: The thing with Punisher is he will never be changed. He just gets to stay awesome and suck up Vigilante(and with Shiva, Assassin) synergy. Conversely Dredd is forced to stay lame though he completely lacks synergy. Yet despite that fact, for some reason, people want to fight me on this. Why?
Explain to me why Anderson should be a Telepath!!!

I have accepted it at this point. I had to with Death (who mostly got hosed by the Crow) and I have with Dredd. However I am not willing to let it happen again with Anderson and more importantly I am not going to LD Anderson unless she helps Dredd as much as possible and that means keeping down her cost by excluding needless synergies.

No way I am doing any Judge LDs ever until this push for Telepath Anderson is dropped or someone presents a solid argument why she should be a Telepath.
No offense dude but you might want to chill out a tad, I get that you're passionate and have gotten screwed over before, but this whole 'I'm going to take my ball and go home!' thing doesn't really work so well when you're the only one super interested in the ball in the first place.

Anyway, I understand your worries, but I'd like to point out that Death and Dredd are both pre-CRB designs. Frankly, back in the day some designs got ruined over some really meaningless crap; but I'd like to think that's a thing of the past now that people actually have a vague idea of how to play Heroscape . Being a telepath would be worth like maybe ten points in her current set-up, and I'd be the first to bring that up if there was some random 'OMG, useless synergy! She needs to cost like 300 points lol' bullcrap going on.


That said, I'm in the 'no telepath' camp. I don't see what it really adds and I'm not really sure Anderson qualifies as a... 'comicbook' psychic... in the first place. To me, she's more like a 'sci-fi novel' psychic in the way her powers work and such... if that makes any sense to anyone but me. Point is, I don't think she necessarily could do much with Xavier and such if she wanted to, she probably wouldn't want to anyway, and there is no particular reason she needs to mechanically.


--

Semi-tangent: As far as re-evals go, I'd fiddle with Punisher over Dredd personally, treat the cause not the symptom and all.
Thanks Soudwarp. I am passionate because people want to tell me how good Dredd is when he simply is not. If folks admit that fact I can drop it. I do not want a re-eval of Dredd, I just want Anderson to help Dredd to the fullest and that means keeping her cost down, even if it is 10 points for needless Telepath synergy. If Dredd was not over-cost I would not care about a little extra Telepath cost but that is where we are and I wish more people would be willing to embrace it.

People keep saying he just needs some synergy and he would be playable. Well if he is lacking, and hard to justify playing, why does he cost so much?

I do not understand why people care if Anderson is a Telepath. TB already said there would be better Telepaths to choose from so why make her a Telepath when there are better ones? Just to increase her points by 10 or 20?

With Dredd already at least 20 points over, the Judge faction cannot afford to drop an extra 10 or 20 on Anderson. I went through this every step of the way with the Dark Judges, carefully shaving points here and there and I finally got them in at 800, where of course they are nothing compared to the Wrecking Crew but at least they can hold their own.

I just want that opportunity with the Judge faction, to right the wrong suffered by Dredd.

Is that too much to ask?

The kicker is that she does work with Telepaths on her own world yet folks want to force her to work well with Telepaths on other worlds.
It makes no sense.
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  #18407  
Old April 26th, 2017, 08:10 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

The only one who's really been pushing for it's been Yodaking - I mentioned it once at the start but at no point since as it's not a big deal to me.


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  #18408  
Old April 26th, 2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
The kicker is that she does NOT work with Telepaths on her own world yet folks want to force her to work well with Telepaths on other worlds.
It makes no sense.
Once again I think most poeple didn't realize this at first. Once you posted this there wasn't a lot of people pushing for it.

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The only one who's really been pushing for it's been Yodaking - I mentioned it once at the start but at no point since as it's not a big deal to me.
Ditto.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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