Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Killometer]

krysto2002's Blood Raptor has received 4 YES votes and moves on to being reviewed.

[Lamaclown]

clancampbell asked if I could post this nomination for him.



The figure is a Free Ranger from D&D Bloodwars. It is available at Auggies and other miniature stores.

[Dad_Scaper]

Clan, you know I think you're the best tournament director ever, and I look forward to seeing you on the 11th.

But the price looks pretty low when compared with this guy:


I do like seeing guys with simple abilities, though, and I like the Syvarris/Aubrien Archer combo. It's thematic, it's simple, but he's awfully tough considering he has one of the longest ranges in the game.

I vote no to Eremon Vandel.

[1Mmirg]

I like the idea and concept. I also get that Eremon only attacks again occassionally (versus Syvarris' consistent two attacks), but I agree with DS that Eremon seems underpriced (or perhaps just a bit too bulky--4 def and 5 life is fairly beefy).

Anyhow, comparing him to Brandis, I feel that something is just a bit off. Price tag or stats. I'd love to see him resubmitted. I like the idea and I'd love to see this kind of unit (he looks a lot like what I was hoping Brandis would be, honestly).

I also vote No to review Eremon. (And I hope I get another chance to say yes...)

[killercactus]

If the defense was 2 (or even 3), and/or the points were 95/100, I'd think this guy was awesome.

As he is, he seems like a very strong 90 Point unit. I think he easily outclasses Warden 816, Atlaga, Brandis, Kiova, etc.

[dok]

I'm uncertain whether fastdraw 15 is a once-per-turn power (that's my literal reading of it) or whether it can be used to attack repeatedly as long as you roll 15+ (not my literal reading, but I think that's the intention).

EDIT: as long as I'm posting here, I'm going to address a common concern that has been voiced about the Zombie Hulk - namely, bonding for only 60 points. I'm not sure what the desired etiquette is here on the discussion of a figure in the review stage, so I apologize if this is inappropriate. I'll spoiler the text just in case.

Spoiler Alert!

The pseudo-bonding is very easy to pull off in the early deployment stages, but at that point, all it is is one extra figure that's moving, and no extra attacks. Once you reach contact with the enemy, though, it gets very tricky.

Horde Shriek only works if you're unengaged, so once you've moved the Hulk to attack, if it fails to get a kill (remember, it moves after the zombies) or if your opponent engages it on the next turn (which a smart opponent with squad figures will do, if there is an OM sitting on it), you don't get to activate the zombies on the next turn with that Hulk. This is very bad - taking a turn with just the hulk and no zombies can really break your momentum. The core of the army is definitely still the zombies themselves.

Pair that with very low survivability by hero standards (i.e. a given hulk could be dead before its OM comes up), and putting OMs on the Zombie Hulks often feels like a risk. It becomes a tricky order marker management problem deciding when to put OMs on the Hulks and which hulks to put them on. I don't think I've ever attacked with a hulk and zombies on the same turn more than twice in a round, and once a round was much more common for me. In testing, I generally played it conservatively and put most of my order markers on the zombies themselves, to ensure that they would get activations. A typical breakdown in midgame was two OMs on the zombies, one OM on a hulk, and the X on a different hulk. This meant the hulks often spend a lot of time idle... but that's why they are only 60 points.

Long story short - the OM efficiency of these guys does not match traditional bonding.

In my testing, the hulks were pretty awesome against Dumutefs and Swogs, and I presume they would be similarly helpful against Hounds or Templar Cav. But against most other things they usually don't seem like a better investment than just more zombies, or other support figures.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by dok

I'm uncertain whether fastdraw 15 is a once-per-turn power (that's my literal reading of it) or whether it can be used to attack repeatedly as long as you roll 15+ (not my literal reading, but I think that's the intention).

I read it as frenzy-like, but you don't get to move again. Only attack, as long as you roll 15+. I thought that was pretty clear. (?)

[clancampbell]

Thank you all for your consideration. I appreciate it.


The fast draw is intended to keep going until you fail a roll, or run out of targets since it doesn't allow you to move again.

I can see where the word "turn" could be mis-leading. Change the the wording from "after taking a turn" to "after attacking" and it should clear up any ambiguity.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by clancampbell

I can see where the word "turn" could be mis-leading. Change the the wording from "after taking a turn" to "after attacking" and it should clear up any ambiguity.

Yes, that is much clearer.

[dok]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

I read it as frenzy-like, but you don't get to move again. Only attack, as long as you roll 15+. I thought that was pretty clear. (?)

I thought that was the intention, but again, it's not my literal reading of the power. The power triggers after you take a turn. If you hit the 15+, you get to attack again... you don't "take another turn".

Originally Posted by clancampbell

The fast draw is intended to keep going until you fail a roll, or run out of targets since it doesn't allow you to move again.

That's what I thought, but I suggest you have the power begin with "after attacking with Eremon Vandel...", not "after taking a turn with Eremon...". This will remove the ambiguity.

Sorry for the semantic pedantry, but we should be careful to cover these corner cases if we want these customs to end up being widely used.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by clancambell, in an edit, no less! That was sneaky.

[robbdaman]

Clan maybe make it a special attack akin to what Laglor has to limit it's effectiveness because it can't be boosted and maybe with a shorter range like Kaemon Awa has with his quick shot. Just a suggestion.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by killercactus

If the defense was 2 (or even 3), and/or the points were 95/100, I'd think this guy was awesome.

As he is, he seems like a very strong 90 Point unit. I think he easily outclasses Warden 816, Atlaga, Brandis, Kiova, etc.

My thoughts exactly, I think this guy needs to be ever so slightly tweaked.

No to Review Eremon.