A cure for Snake Poison

[Faartknocker]

Greetings, everyone.

I just read Spider Poison's post about his tournament victories at Gen Con and elsewhere. First of all, let me congratulate him on his victories, way to go Spider Poison! However, as we all know, any army on a balanced terrain can be defeated.

Here's the (highly) bonded army he used at Gen Con:

Krug.....................................120 pts
3 squads of Arrow Gruts.........120 pts
3 Swog Riders.........................75 pts
Raelin.....................................80 pts
TOTAL...................................395 pts

What army can we come up with that has a good chance of defeating his?

Here's MY idea:

Mimring.................................150 pts
3 squads of Arrow Gruts..........120 pts
2 Swog Riders..........................50 pts
2 squads of Venoc Vipers..........80 pts
TOTAL...................................400 pts

I know that in tournaments one is not given the chance to "counter-draft" as I have just done, but it's still good as a practice exercise for when one plays at home against a single opponent. Notice that I'm "fighting fire with fire", since part of our armies are the same.

The key difference is Mimring, who can blast Krug with repeated attacks of 4 dice from 8 spaces away. Mimring can also be used against Snake Poison's numerous smaller units, perhaps catching two or three at a time in a passage.

It goes without saying that Krug must NOT be allowed to engage Mimring in Melee combat. Arrow Gruts can be sacrificed to buy Mimring more time if necessary. Once Krug is eliminated, Spider Poison's army will be hard put to answer Mimring's "fire from above". The Venoc Vipers are included only because they may be useful in an endgame situation should Raelin or one of the Swogs survive.

I'd like to know what ideas you have. Cheers!

[Chimpy]

I see the arrow gruts from his army making short work of mimring. The addtional swog will only help. If you are going to do a "orc archer" army, I would try to get more archers and swogs than your opponent.

P.S. (It is Spider Poison not Snake Poison )

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Chimpy

I see the arrow gruts from his army making short work of mimring. The addtional swog will only help. If you are going to do a "orc archer" army, I would try to get more archers and swogs than your opponent.

P.S. (It is Spider Poison not Snake Poison)

Um... He knows it is "Spider Poison" I think he was just making a more interesting title.

[Faartknocker]

Thanks, Grungebob. Greetings, Chimpy.

In your reply, Chimpy, you argue that Mimring will be destroyed by Spider Poison's Arrow Gruts. I respectfully disagree and here's why.

Firstly, Mimring, being able to fly, will be able to perch on high ground. This will give him a defense of 4 against the Arrow Gruts' attack of only one. It will take many, many attacks of 1 indeed to eliminate Mimring (5 life).

Secondly, if Spider Poison were to move one of his Swogs forward to then surround him with Arrow Gruts, the combined bunch of units would be sweet pickings for Mimring's fire-line special attack. Mimring might very well eliminate the Swog Rider and one or two Arrow Gruts in one fell swoop. Remember too that MY Arrow Gruts will not be standing idly by. They too would be attacking Spider Poison's Arrow Gruts while they're busy bouncing arrows off of Mimring's scaly hide.

Finally, bear in mind Mimring's great range of 8. With such a range, Mimring will have the luxury of attacking from afar without worrying about any melee damage.

That's my reasoning behind my choice. If you see a flaw in it, please point it out. I would also like to invite you, Chimpy, to propose your own army to counter Spider Poison's. That is, after all, the purpose of this post. Cheers!

[Euryon]

My personal counter draft to that would contain DW8k, Knights & Denrick/Highlanders & Alastair, RaeLin.
I cant check points whilst at work (heroscape.com is blocked). But 8k is the perfect counter to orc swarm, and the Knights can hold Krug up long enough, and Denrick beats him in a 1 on 1.

[atmospro]

Eruyon that's 560 points with only single of the common Knights and Highlanders.
DW8k 130
Knights 70
Denrick 100
Highlanders 80
Alastair 110
RaeLin 80

[ASmiles]

I'm pretty sure that he meant Knights&Dendrick or Alastair&MacDirks, not all 4 units.

[Euryon]

Yeah, sorry, meant either or. Id max up on more commons and their chosen hero, not use both sets of commons

You could have, then:

DW8K - 130
Denrick - 100
Knights x2 - 140
Raelin - 80

450 points (Add Marro Warriors or somesuch)

Or

DW8K - 130
Alastair - 110
Highlanders x2 - 160
Raelin - 80

480 points

Id be willing to try either of those out, to be honest. Of course it depends on the map... Knights will be better defensively and holding glyphs, but the Highlanders and Al will have some serious punch...

As long as DW doesnt get whacked by an orc early on <_<

[Jormi_Boced]

Originally Posted by Euryon

Yeah, sorry, meant either or. Id max up on more commons and their chosen hero, not use both sets of commons

You could have, then:

DW8K - 130
Denrick - 100
Knights x2 - 140
Raelin - 80

450 points (Add Marro Warriors or somesuch)

Or

DW8K - 130
Alastair - 110
Highlanders x2 - 160
Raelin - 80

480 points

Id be willing to try either of those out, to be honest. Of course it depends on the map... Knights will be better defensively and holding glyphs, but the Highlanders and Al will have some serious punch...

As long as DW doesnt get whacked by an orc early on <_<

Both of those are over 400 as well.

[CornPuff]

Well, take a look at the Weaknesses of SP's draft, and we can devise a counter.
<Krug>
Vulnerable against: Range 7 and higher, Damage Negaters (W.o.Ashra, Microcorp, Sacred Band w Parmenio, Crixus), Sudema (the only fig that wins a one on one with Krug)
Weak against: Low defense figures (wounded smash isn't justified), Low cost figures (he can only kill 2 a turn), High attack figures (although you usually don't want to get them close)
Strong against: High Defense figures, High life figures

<Archers and Swogs>
Vulnerable against: Everything :P
Weak Against: High Defense figures (arrows can't take out Q9 effectively), High life figures (arrows whittle figs slowly), Drake, G'nators
Strong Against: Kravs (if you must use range against them, 1 die is the way to go), Low defense squaddies (i'm looking at you, MacDirks), Cowardly Strike figs, slow figs, heroes with one attack

<Raelin>
She's a monkey wrench, so this isn't about her, its about what she does to the orkies. She makes small attacks much less useful against the gruts, swogs and Krug. She works best with low def/high life figs, so she's the prefect choice for this army. However, to go against her you just need to get her in range and light her up with a high attack barrage, or sneak in an assassin like Drake or the ninjas.

So, now that we laid that out, I think theirs a couple good armies we could pick:

Nakitas (give troops mobility, firepower against everyone but krug)
2x G'Nators ( basic troops, good vs everything)
2x Warriors of Ashra ( vs Krug & swogs)

-or-

Venoc Warlord (mittens is still good for cleanup, but yeah, he'll be behind a ruin)
Venoc Vipers x 7 ( Oh yeah, with a strike range of 10, and the inevitable multiple frenzy, they know no fear)

Its a tough army,, for sure (after all SP did win with it ) but I think those two armies would have some success.

ps to the d20 playa-haters: with that many vipers, you aren't betting on if you frenzy, you are just capitalizing on when you frenzy. The best part is the opponent doesn't know when either.

[Slade]

well I have got a 390 that is the orc opposite and has been working very well for me. It is the basis of my Tree Town Open army and I have been having tuns of fun even when losing with it.

3x blade grut
Chompy (orc champ)
Tarnak (orc champ)
Nerak (oh my gosh orc champ)

[Chimpy]

Darn it, Cornpuff you took my army! I thought about it all day long and was so going to post a Nakita-WoA combo. Oh well now you know my vote.


P.S. Responding to Fartknocker's coment that responded to mine: There is one thing you forget in your counter-analysis. Raelin. If Raelin will be protecting the swog-archer cluster and thus they will very likley survive Mimring's fireline. With the swog's bonuses the gruts should be able to take on the dragon's armor. And, while Mimring is firelining said gruts, Krug will be able to kreep up on Mimring. If any of your orcs move in Krug's way Spider poision's archers will shoot them down (they would have a hard time postioning the swogs to boost themselves while intercepting Krug.)

The one thing that would worry me if I was feilding this army is your Venocs. These guys could easily make or break the game. They slaughter gruts in close quarters and can make short work of Raelin. One extra frenzy with the vipers wins the game. Of course what happens when that frenzy does not come?