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  #169  
Old December 11th, 2019, 02:18 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

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Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
That would make them weaker as their pride dies though, reducing their usefulness. Seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
I am concerned about that. I'm also not in love with the minor memory mechanic of having to remember which Pride started where.
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  #170  
Old December 11th, 2019, 02:28 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

Whichever way we go, it looks like we should circle back to design here.

Is that something we should vote on, or should I just update the thread title?

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  #171  
Old December 11th, 2019, 02:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

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Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
Whichever way we go, it looks like we should circle back to design here.

Is that something we should vote on, or should I just update the thread title?
I don't think we need a vote because no one is happy with a power. Just update the thread title.
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  #172  
Old December 11th, 2019, 02:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
That would make them weaker as their pride dies though, reducing their usefulness. Seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
I am concerned about that. I'm also not in love with the minor memory mechanic of having to remember which Pride started where.
Shark units generally become weaker as the minis die off, and unique squads are no different. If you want to prevent memory games, just boost move/attack by 1 or 2 a la Tricky Speed.

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  #173  
Old December 11th, 2019, 04:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
That would make them weaker as their pride dies though, reducing their usefulness. Seems like the opposite of what you'd want.
I am concerned about that. I'm also not in love with the minor memory mechanic of having to remember which Pride started where.
Shark units generally become weaker as the minis die off, and unique squads are no different. If you want to prevent memory games, just boost move/attack by 1 or 2 a la Tricky Speed.
Tricky Speed has the advantage of being on a Hero. That's a single figure. With a squad, you need to remember the original position of each. On top of that, they boost each other, so simply remembering where one started is not enough, you have to remember if the others started adjacent.

It's not terrible, but it doesn't feel elegant.
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  #174  
Old December 11th, 2019, 04:25 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

Quote:
If a Ukushisa Pride figure starts their move adjacent to a figure with Lava Resistance, add 2 to its move. When making an attack with Ukushisa Pride, add one attack die for each adjacent figure with Lava Resistance, up to a maximum of +3 for the Blazing power.
Removes "memory mechanic" and keeps movement not reliant on # of figures, but still attack does go down as they die, IMHO this is very thematic of a fire dying out when you spread the embers. You can also split each line of my above suggestion to two separate powers. Also makes it interesting choices as you have to pay attention to the order of movement to get the movement bonus you need.

Also note as worded both teammate's and opponent's figures with Lava resistance assist in the powers, but IMHO it is also thematic and makes sense in-game as counter to LR units. I had a similar idea with my Troglodyte Brutes, that makes for fun counter-drafting in home games but also a nice bonus in tournaments.
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  #175  
Old December 11th, 2019, 04:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

I was just expressing that if the desire was to want to boost them similarly to the B-11 that's going down and not up. Maybe that isn't the desire, I don't have a horse in this race but if I did I'd go with a power that doesn't get less useful.

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  #176  
Old December 11th, 2019, 05:12 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

What are we actually going for here? Are we looking to have just any power that gives a conditional attack boost, or do we want this unit to remain effective endgame sharks? If we want the latter, then getting a boost from being adjacent to each other doesn't fit the bill. Not being able to spread out effectively would be a huge disadvantage in that scenario.

On the other hand, power ideas that power up the remaining Ukushisa when one or more of them are destroyed would be quite effective in that scenario. TLEB's Pride Revenge looks pretty good to me, although with that direction I'd just drop the water space limitation. I'm a little concerned that it's a lot less interesting than the B-11's similar power is, though. A ranged squad that goes from 2/2 to 5/5 as it loses members starts to play differently as it dwindles, where as going from 6 move 3 attack to 8 move 5 attack on 1 figure doesn't end up being that threatening.

How about a more aggressive spin on things? Could we maybe nix the move boost on pride revenge, but bump the attack boost to 2? Suddenly, you go from a fairly ho-hum 3 attacks of 3, 2 attacks of 4, 1 attack of 5 to a very scary 3 of 3, 2 of 5, and 1 of 7.

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  #177  
Old December 11th, 2019, 05:37 PM
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Lightbulb Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
Personally, I stand by what I said in that changing it from markers to once per round doesn't feel like an improvement in terms of decision making. It does make the mechanic a little more clean, though, and it doesn't present the appearance of decision making where there isn't much.
That I have to disagree with. As they are, the Pride are pretty sharky. That's to be expected; they're a unique melee squad. Once you get them into combat, you will want to get use out of them before they go down. That makes it difficult to maximize Blaze; if you have to wait whole rounds between activations, you will likely not have them alive long enough to use them again. You have to be careful to time the uses to maximize Blaze, which will, at the least, push people toward trying to time a 3rd order marker usage, or be picky about what turns Blaze is used on.

I'm not thrilled about adding another power, especially if the goal is to try to make not-valuable markers valuable. The right decision is to dump the markers. But let's take a .
Opps.. i playtested with them with no limit on activation,
and got close enough , to take down q9 and win. It was fun sneaking around the LOS blockers and then going for the kill. Though I got lucky with the defense roll on a round of attacks from q9 on the cats that should have taken them out by the q9 gun.

Map: River Ruin Divide
Highest d20 roll determines choice of glyph (attack or defense)
I won and choose attack glyph on my side (see map below)

AToP map components used only except attack and defense glyph.

400 Point Armies

Bros Army - Q9, Nakita Agents,Krav Mag Agents

Ukushisa Pride - Blazing Firecats ,Iron Golem ,Raelin,Rats,Dead Eye Dan,Isamu

Round 7 win

1 UP Cat remaining
1 life Golem
Full Squad of rats
Dead Eye Dan 60
Isamu 10

map:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/02yhes...uin_divide.jpg


aftermath:
http://http://www.mediafire.com/view/wjxvmogolcdv0er/upvsq9.jpg

Last edited by Fakeraistlin; December 12th, 2019 at 12:47 AM.
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  #178  
Old December 12th, 2019, 11:01 AM
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The Long eared bat The Long eared bat is offline
 
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
What are we actually going for here? Are we looking to have just any power that gives a conditional attack boost, or do we want this unit to remain effective endgame sharks? If we want the latter, then getting a boost from being adjacent to each other doesn't fit the bill. Not being able to spread out effectively would be a huge disadvantage in that scenario.

On the other hand, power ideas that power up the remaining Ukushisa when one or more of them are destroyed would be quite effective in that scenario. TLEB's Pride Revenge looks pretty good to me, although with that direction I'd just drop the water space limitation. I'm a little concerned that it's a lot less interesting than the B-11's similar power is, though. A ranged squad that goes from 2/2 to 5/5 as it loses members starts to play differently as it dwindles, where as going from 6 move 3 attack to 8 move 5 attack on 1 figure doesn't end up being that threatening.

How about a more aggressive spin on things? Could we maybe nix the move boost on pride revenge, but bump the attack boost to 2? Suddenly, you go from a fairly ho-hum 3 attacks of 3, 2 attacks of 4, 1 attack of 5 to a very scary 3 of 3, 2 of 5, and 1 of 7.
So something like this:
PRIDE REVENGE
Add 1 to the Ukushisa Pride's Move number and add 2 to their Attack number for each previously destroyed Ukushisa Pride member on this Army Card.
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  #179  
Old January 26th, 2020, 09:30 AM
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The Long eared bat The Long eared bat is offline
 
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

Bump. Do people like this direction:
PRIDE REVENGE
Add 1 to the Ukushisa Pride's Move number and add 2 to their Attack number for each previously destroyed Ukushisa Pride member on this Army Card.
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  #180  
Old January 26th, 2020, 01:02 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHISA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

The direction works, but I don’t like giving a solo squad figure +4 attack. I could see +2M/+1A here, though.

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