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  #13  
Old June 24th, 2019, 11:34 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

I like either the double Fire Line or double Explosions attack.
Quote:
FIRE LINES SPECIAL ATTACK. Range Special. Attack 3.
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line [CN]. All figures on those spaces that are in line of sight are affected by Fire Lines Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. When using Fire Lines Special Attack you may attack one additional time but must choose a different line.

EXPLOSION SPECIAL ATTACKS. Range 4. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Explosion Special Attacks. [CN] only needs a clear sight shot at the chosen figure. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. [CN] can be affected by his own Explosion Special Attack. When using EXPLOSION SPECIAL ATTACKS you may attack one additional time.
I also like Searing Intensity or some kind of engagement strike that Lava Resistance has an exception to. Maybe:
Quote:
FIRE STRIKE
After moving and before attacking, you must roll the 20-sided die once for each figure adjacent to at [CN]. If you roll a 14 or higher, that figure receives 1 wound. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Fire Strike.
I could do with either summoning or movement bonding on Moltarns/Firecats. Another idea (also to help Obsidians as well as Firecats) is add extra defense or attack or even range to adjacent Motarns or figures with Lava Resistance:
Quote:
FIRE INTENSITY
All friendly adjacent [Moltarns figures / figures with the Lava Resistance special power] may add one to their [range,] attack and defense.
The range is just an idea but understand if it is too much. We can decide of we want this power to affect just Moltarn or all Lava Resistant figures in the game (kinda makes her a "General" according to Heroscape Factions: Thematic Unit Groupings.

Well that is ate least 4 powers to think about.

Last edited by lefton4ya; June 25th, 2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  #14  
Old June 24th, 2019, 02:44 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

I sort of like Fire Intensity but again, I think we need to really drill down on not having that sort of specific and limited synergy, however much we may want it. Let’s make the firecats Moltarn and leave that space open for Moltarn synergy later for personal customs or something run through VC.

I also think two explosions is too much. If we went with an explosion option it should just be the one.
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  #15  
Old June 24th, 2019, 06:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

I always sigh a bit when I see a "like an earlier power, but better!" design. Two firelines instead of one feel like that to me. Though two shorter firelines is significantly different, and interesting, especially if figures can only be affected once per turn. Double explosions excite me even less.

Synergy is far from necessary, but it isn't a bad thing. Far from it, if it's well done. If we went in the direction of Captain Stupendous's Dying Flame/Rekindled Flame concept for the cats, we could have her do the rekindling. For example: change Rekindle to be recharge instead of dying whenever they would receive wounds from lava fields or a power that does not affect Lava Resistant figures, and give this unit a power that does not affect Lava Resistant figures.

Fire Strike is fine, but uninteresting on its own. It would need to be put on a design that supports it in some way. (Not necessarily other powers either, even preferably not, but an overall design such as a mobile defender or a glass cannon.)

I'm not a fan of giving her a cheerleading ability that affects all figures with the Lava Resistant special power. Especially with a glyph in the (VC) game that gives figures lava resistance.
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  #16  
Old June 25th, 2019, 05:49 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

If she synergises with the fire cats via rekindling doesn't this make them too interdependent.
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  #17  
Old June 25th, 2019, 10:47 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
If she synergises with the fire cats via rekindling doesn't this make them too interdependent.
I'm not afraid of interdependencies. But no, it wouldn't have to, depending on the blaze mechanic. If they blaze out fast, then yes. But if they have a slower burnout, maybe remove a blaze token for +1 attack, then it's a softer synergy and the cats can function fine alone. Either way, this unit is fine alone.
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  #18  
Old June 25th, 2019, 02:38 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

For the dual fireline, I think range 4 attack 3 feels about right to me. Doesnít compete with Mimringís range or dice output but will probably have a bit of an easier time hitting more figures at once. I also agree with not letting her double up - she should choose two lines when she uses the attack and roll dice once, rather than just getting to use the SA twice.

Iím intrigued enough by the rekindling concept that I would be willing to see what it looks like. The idea of Chandra burning through enemies while igniting her firecats in the same line of flame sounds quite interesting, but Iím not immediately sure how to implement that coherently.

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  #19  
Old June 25th, 2019, 02:47 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
Iím intrigued enough by the rekindling concept that I would be willing to see what it looks like. The idea of Chandra burning through enemies while igniting her firecats in the same line of flame sounds quite interesting, but Iím not immediately sure how to implement that coherently.
Building around the current ideas, something like this for the cats:

BLAZE
At the start of the game place 3 Blaze markers on this Army Card. Before taking a turn with the Firecats, you may remove one Blaze marker to add 1 to their Move and Attack values.

REKINDLING FLAME
When a Firecat would take damage from lava fields or from a power that does not affect figures with the Lava Resistant special power, you may ignore all wounds and add a Blaze marker to this Army Card, to a maximum of 3 Blaze markers.

Then modify Chandras to something like:
BURNING HANDS SPECIAL ATTACK
Attack 3, Range Special
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Chandra. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Chandra's Burning Hands Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. After attacking with Burning Hands special attack, you may attack one additional time with Burning Hands special attack. Figures cannot be affected by Burning Hands Special Attack more than once per turn. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Burning Hands Special Attack.
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  #20  
Old June 25th, 2019, 03:05 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Hmmm, thatís pretty compelling, especially because if we do go the Blaze mechanic for the firecats there wonít be any lava in the set for them to play with. Letting another figure light them up instead would allow that power to still be useful within the set itself, in addition to having applications in other builds and scenarios.

Iíll sit on it a bit but I think I do like it.

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  #21  
Old June 25th, 2019, 09:44 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Building around the current ideas, something like this for the cats:

BLAZE
At the start of the game place 3 Blaze markers on this Army Card. Before taking a turn with the Firecats, you may remove one Blaze marker to add 1 to their Move and Attack values.

REKINDLING FLAME
When a Firecat would take damage from lava fields or from a power that does not affect figures with the Lava Resistant special power, you may ignore all wounds and add a Blaze marker to this Army Card, to a maximum of 3 Blaze markers.

Then modify Chandras to something like:
BURNING HANDS SPECIAL ATTACK
Attack 3, Range Special
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Chandra. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Chandra's Burning Hands Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. After attacking with Burning Hands special attack, you may attack one additional time with Burning Hands special attack. Figures cannot be affected by Burning Hands Special Attack more than once per turn. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Burning Hands Special Attack.
That's a pretty cool direction (see comments in Firecat thread about what we're using as markers). BHSA could also be significantly shorter:

Choose 3 spaces in a two straight lines from Chandra, each 3 spaces long. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Chandra's Burning Hands Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. After attacking with Burning Hands special attack, you may attack one additional time with Burning Hands special attack. Figures cannot be affected by Burning Hands Special Attack more than once per turn. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Burning Hands Special Attack.

317-149
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  #22  
Old June 25th, 2019, 11:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I personally don't object to light synergy, but if at all possible I would prefer to avoid creating designs that are completely dependent on each other. I want people to be able to take Chandra or the Firecats in whatever builds they choose, rather than having to take both of them to get decent value out of either. Jace and the Illusions are an exception to me just because of how much those figures resemble each other.

In general, I agree with the suggestions about making her an offense-focused toolkit. Another possibility would be to give her a ranged Double Attack, since I'd like to represent that power somewhere in the set and it seems fitting enough for a figure shooting fire out of both arms. That would be a pretty solid offensive punch on its own though, so we'd have to be careful to make her SA still worth using.

I agree with the above. Especially the ability to not have to take phoenixes and firecats etc.

I think we should avoid the summoning powers for units such as Chandra to differentiate from AoTP and make units such as Kurrock and Jace unique.
Though like AoTP this Chandra is a fire mage of some kind. Which is the ability to manipulate/control fire.

As far as I know, there isn't a HS spell casting unit which has more than two modes for special attacks, so I submit the following for consideration:

Attack:2
Defense:2
Move:7
Range:5

Fiery Attack 'Normal Attack'

-For Defense units less than 3, automatic skull plus what is rolled.
-All skulls count as an additional skull
-Lava resistant creatures make this only an attack of 1

At the beginning on her turn before Chandra moves and attacks she can choose the following three modes that will be active until her next turn:

Fire Shield:
- Enables Lava resistance
- +3 Defense
- Enables Fire Shield Counterstrike

Fire Blast:
Instead of moving and attacking Chandra can cast Fire Blast -
Two hex wide blast of fiery death
Range 4 Attack 5
-Lava resistant creatures are unaffected

Fire Control:
Instead of moving and attacking Chandra can attempt control of any one creature within LOS and with Lava Resistance or has a Fire Based special attack. This control is lost if Chandra's changes her attack mode. Success depends on size of creature. S (5 or higher), M ( 10 or higher), L+ (15)
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  #23  
Old June 26th, 2019, 11:21 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Choose 3 spaces in a two straight lines from Chandra, each 3 spaces long. All figures on those spaces who are in line of sight are affected by Chandra's Burning Hands Special Attack. Roll 3 attack dice for all affected figures. Affected figures roll defense dice separately. After attacking with Burning Hands special attack, you may attack one additional time with Burning Hands special attack. Figures cannot be affected by Burning Hands Special Attack more than once per turn. Figures with the Lava Resistant special power are not affected by Burning Hands Special Attack.
I was trying to avoid any confusion about hitting an adjacent double-spaced figured with both lines (hit once or twice?), but yeah, I agree this version is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
As far as I know, there isn't a HS spell casting unit which has more than two modes for special attacks, so I submit the following for consideration:
There are some good ideas here, but far too many for one unit. Both the amount of text and the complexity levels are untenable. Additionally, "until her next turn" powers should be avoided in general. They do exist (Cloud of Darkness) and can be used, but they add a memory mechanic. Without a physical representation ('X' order marker, another marker, etc), these sorts of things should be used very sparingly.

Really, just a unit with two different special attacks does most of what you intend: a unit with variable powers. Just in a simpler, more 'Scapy way.
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  #24  
Old June 26th, 2019, 07:38 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Design

@Fakeraistlin your post gave me an idea I'm just throwing out there. We could do something after movement and before attack that rolls the 20 sided die and the result determines what kind of attack she does (being careful to word it not to create a loop). If we do 3 results we'd have to keep them fairly straight forward to avoid a huge text wall. I wonder if two might be better.

Something good like

1-10 double attack with range
11-20 you may attack all adjacent figures


Or something where most results are good, but some results are really good

1-17 double ranged attack
18-20 may attack all figures within X clear line of sight spaces
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