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  #25  
Old September 21st, 2007, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
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Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
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Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
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Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
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Originally Posted by Zombie Hoard
Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord?
Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).
But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.
What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.
Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures 6 spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.


Last edited by Taeblewalker; August 20th, 2014 at 12:13 AM.
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  #26  
Old September 21st, 2007, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Hoard
Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord?
Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).
But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.
What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.
Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.
I thought you were talking WITHOUT a hivelord. Okay...
I wouldn't use the Nagrubs to cower behind the Hivelord anyway. I'd try to keep them adjacent as much as possible, but join in on the assualt, and if necessary, charge them up a hill to engage someone.
Edit: The main problem with the Nagrubs is that the Hivelords are just so darn expensive. With the Roborats, I can get two squads and the Krav Maga and be done. To get an equal amount with Tor-Kul-Na and the Nagrubs, it costs 100 points more, and you're likely going to need more for both the Roborats and Nagrubs, so yeah. Also, we can't forget that the Nagrubs only have 3 in a squad!

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  #27  
Old September 21st, 2007, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
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Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
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Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
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Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Hoard
Can someone make a reveiw on the Nargrubs and have something other than cower behind a hivelord?
Hmmm....I'll consider it!
Why would one even consider it? Without a hivelord, the Roborats are better than the Nagrubs in every way (except attack, but no one will honestly use the Nagrubs for that alone...).
But what about going after ranged units? The Nagrubs climb just as well as the Roborats, and they can actually take out an Aubrien Archer, Arrow Grut, Roman Archer, 4th Mass, or Ashigaru Harquebus with that Attack of 2. Sure, they need a Hivelord to be fully effective, but the Roborats need something on that order of unit also! And they lack bonding.
What's the use of bonding if you don't have a warlord along? Also, saying the Rats don't have bonding is silly- they sort of do, considering the immense synergy the get with pratically the majority of units in the game. And plus, won't the Nagrubs, you know, DIE first before they reach the ranged? Sure, they're small, but not small enough to avoid getting slaughtered by some of those units.
Other than as swarmers, I'm not sure what synergy you mean. The Scatter ability is nice, if that's what you mean, but Hivelord Life Bonding is more powerful. And why wouldn't you draft a Hivelord with them? Hivelords are worthwhile units in themselves, so it's not like you will draft one just to make use of the Nagrubs. Deathreavers are really no more useful without more powerful units than the Nagrubs are without their Hivelord.

While they don't Scatter, you get to move them up each time you take a turn with a Hivelord. This is faster than Scatter especially since two move up with Scatter and 3 with Nagrub normal movement. The Deathreavers move 4 figures spaces with normal movement, but then they are only taking their own turn without Bonding, and they can't attack effectively when they get there.

I agree that the Deathreavers are better swarm units generically, but if you draft a Hivelord, you can use the Nagrubs to swarm and to actually make meanigful attacks against any figure with a Defense of 2 or less. That covers many squads.
I thought you were talking WITHOUT a hivelord. Okay...
I wouldn't use the Nagrubs to cower behind the Hivelord anyway. I'd try to keep them adjacent as much as possible, but join in on the assualt, and if necessary, charge them up a hill to engage someone.
EXACTLY! Don't keep them all adjacent; send most of them out, but keep a few next to Tor-Kul-Na. Even if they get targeted and killed, they served their function of sparing the Hivelord a wound.

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  #28  
Old September 21st, 2007, 10:21 PM
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Heh. I'd like to help if necessary! It'd be interesting to help with one of these, especially with the first SoTM unit! Let's do the Drudge next if we do.

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  #29  
Old September 22nd, 2007, 02:20 AM
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EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).

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  #30  
Old January 28th, 2009, 08:52 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker View Post
EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).
In a similar sense, Marcu is excellent for this strategy as well (particularly if you're using Ornak)

Ornak activates Marcu who flies into the middle of some enemies and tries to kill/wound someone; Ornak then activates DW 9000 who blasts Marcu with an Explosion attack. While Marcu isn't as reusable as DW 7000 when it comes to being a homing beacon, the strategy can be used more than once before your vampire bites the dust (he'll last longer if he can kill some ppl for self healing in between explosions).

The main reason I mention this strategy modification is because of points.

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
100 - DW 7000
340 points, is considerably more of an investment than...

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu
260 points, which still gives you room to fill out your army.

Take this 500 point army for example...

100 - Ornak
100 - Tornak
140 - Heavy Gruts x2
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu

500 points of powerful melee, with a homing beacon/glyph grabber (Marcu), and some range support with a special attack.

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  #31  
Old April 30th, 2009, 08:21 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

nice guide. i am going to try dw9k as soon as i get rotv!
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  #32  
Old April 30th, 2009, 10:48 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zealot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker View Post
EDIT: I added Zealot's idea of having Deathwalker 9000 target his allied Deathwalker 7000 to take out foes adjecent to DW7K (Stealth Dodge saves your own soulborg but doesn't help the enemy).
In a similar sense, Marcu is excellent for this strategy as well (particularly if you're using Ornak)

Ornak activates Marcu who flies into the middle of some enemies and tries to kill/wound someone; Ornak then activates DW 9000 who blasts Marcu with an Explosion attack. While Marcu isn't as reusable as DW 7000 when it comes to being a homing beacon, the strategy can be used more than once before your vampire bites the dust (he'll last longer if he can kill some ppl for self healing in between explosions).

The main reason I mention this strategy modification is because of points.

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
100 - DW 7000
340 points, is considerably more of an investment than...

100 - Ornak
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu
260 points, which still gives you room to fill out your army.

Take this 500 point army for example...

100 - Ornak
100 - Tornak
140 - Heavy Gruts x2
140 - DW 9000
020 - Marcu

500 points of powerful melee, with a homing beacon/glyph grabber (Marcu), and some range support with a special attack.
You could go whole hog and also use Krug and, to a lesser extent, Brunak as potential targets. As a bonus, Brunak could keep Ornak within range of his heroes.

140 DW 9000
120 Krug
110 Brunak
100 Ornak
20 Marcu
500

David
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  #33  
Old May 1st, 2009, 07:39 AM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

Greetings, Taeblewalker et al.

First of all, nice post. You really covered (almost?) all of the good practical uses of DWK 9000. While I readily concede that he is a formidable adversary, I would like to point out to (new) site members why he is rarely seen in tournaments/competitive play as this aspect was not covered in detail because, clearly, it was not the focus of the original post.

DWK 9000 has four major drawbacks: fragility, cost, speed and order marker cost.

He is fragile because it only takes one hit to kill him. This was covered in the post. What was not explained is how easlily this can happen. With a defense of 9, one would think that most units' attacks would not be able to punch through. However, consider this: DWK 9000 is as likely to roll zero, one or two shields as he is to roll four, five, six, seven, eight and nine shields. That means he will very, very often roll less than three shields! Guess what? That makes him incredibly vulnerable to average squad attacks. This explains why he is so often destroyed before earning his keep.

To invest 140 points in a unit that can be so easily destroyed is bad enough, but, in addition, he is very slow and thus, once exposed, he can't escape from enemy melee or ranged units. His range of 7 means that he has to get (relatively) close to his enemies in order to attack. This exposure almost guarantees that on the following turn his crystal jaw is put to the test, and it disappoints too often.

The forementioned alone would disqualify him from competitive play, but he has yet another cost that is not apparent until it is too late. Heroscape is primarily a game to tactical maneouvering and probability management. By moving DWK 9000 several times, you are foregoing the deployment/development/positioning of the rest of your army. You are conceding glyphs and height advantages without compensation. It is equivalent to moving the queen 3 times in a chess opening and giving your opponent total control of the centre.

Every glyph that your opponent secures with his (ranged) squads makes his army far better: simply consider how much better a Marro Stinger army becomes once it secures the attack glyph and shoots at DWK 9000 with Stinger Drain and perhaps height advantage to boot. It would be an attack of 6 per Stinger! DWK 9000 usually considers glyph-securing a menial task that is beneath him, and yet, often, it is that very fact that speeds his demise.

By having to place so many order markers on the big bot, your other units will be left out of position while your opponent races to secure glyphs and height advantages. Not only will your DWK 9000 then be easier to destroy, but so will the rest of your army which is still sitting in the start zone. When the cost of order markers is added to DWK 9000's point cost, he becomes a ridiculously high-priced unit given the other options that are available.

Last edited by Sarpedon; May 12th, 2009 at 12:35 AM.
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  #34  
Old May 1st, 2009, 05:15 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

Very well-said!

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  #35  
Old May 1st, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

Hmm, I never thought of 9K with Glads + Blasts... cool ^^
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  #36  
Old May 1st, 2009, 06:27 PM
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Re: Unit Strategy Review: How to use Deathwalker 9000

9K works well in an Utgar hero army with Ornak.


EDIT: Heck, any/all of the DWs work well in that situation!


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