Godzilla and friends

[toyhandle]

Awesome collection. Can you take a pic of Biollante on a 7 Hex?

Showa Gigan can be a Tag-Team type character, since he appeared alongside Ghidorah and Megalon, and Final Wars Gigan would have the double chainsaw hands and hook wraps.

[BeardBeyond]

Originally Posted by toyhandle

Awesome collection. Can you take a pic of Biollante on a 7 Hex?

I certainly can when I get the chance, but that might be a ways away as I'm on a 7 day work week indefinitely and devoting the little spare time I have to organizing and sleeving Millennium Blades Collusion All-In Kickstarter that just came in. It's gonna take an extra while because I'm making custom dividers for the ones they messed up on and cataloguing every card in the game because apparently no ones done this yet and how am I supposed to know if any cards are missing otherwise? XD

I'll likely take a short intermission next week and bust out some tiles and Biollante, but the odd shape of the figure will likely mean I'll have to trace its perimeter to get a few clear pics of how it sits best on x number of hexes (as its upper body blocks the view of how most of its lower body touches the ground).

[toyhandle]

NAME = DAISUKE SERIZAWA

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SCIENTIST
PERSONALITY = RELUCTANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = ?

INVENTOR OF THE OXYGEN DESTROYER
At the start of the game, place one Glyph of the Oxygen Destroyer on its card, and set it aside. You may place any figure destroyed by an opponent's Kaiju on this card. When # or more figures are placed on this card, you may remove them and place the Glyph of the Oxygen Destroyer on this card. If Daisuke Serizawa is destroyed, remove the Glyph of the Oxygen Destroyer from the game. Instead of attacking with Daisuke Serizawa, you may place the Glyph of the Oxygen Destroyer power-side up on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces of Daisuke Serizawa and no more than 4 levels above his base. After placing it, immediately follow its rules and then remove it from the game.

__


NAME = GLYPH OF THE OXYGEN DESTROYER
SUBTITLE = WMD

PERMANENT GLYPH

When this glyph is placed on the battlefield power-side up, any Hero or Squad figure that is on or within 4 spaces of this glyph immediately receives 4 wounds.
Then, roll the 20-sided die for each affected Hero or Squad figure on the battlefield, one at a time. Add 4 to the roll if that figure is a Kaiju.

If you roll 3 or less, that figure receives no additional wounds.
If you roll 4-19, that figure receives one additional wound.
If you roll 20 or higher, that figure receives four additional wounds.

Androids and Constructs are not affected by the Glyph of the Oxygen Destroyer.

[Ronin]

That's no friend of Godzilla!

Is it worth doing the Oxygen Destroyer as a power on his card instead of as a glyph? It feels like something that's too strong to get used in other contexts much, and the design isn't particularly leveraging its glyph status.

[toyhandle]

Good question, I don't actually know. The Blackout, Cyber, Remote-Detonated and Time Bomb Permanent Glyphs, and Gamma Bomb Temporary Glyph made me think it should be a glyph.

[Ronin]

The main advantages of making it a separate glyph are that other designs would be able to use it, or you could just use it as an option for a glyph pool.

(Or from a just-this-design perspective, having a separate glyph could help with tracking chosen spaces, but with this being a one-and-done vs any kind of lingering effect or multi-space thing, that doesn't seem like a big deal)

It seems so wildly powerful that I'm just not sure any other card would ever bring it into play. (And thematically there aren't really other cards that should do so, thanks to Serizawa's sacrifice. )

[toyhandle]

I was thinking about Megalon, and his role as an Ally to Gigan. In my opinion, Megalon belongs in a different class to King Ghidorah.

From the Great Class Change of '21: "We're moving some older squads to the Invader class so we can use that as a synergy hook for alien invaders."
I take Alien Invaders as meaning extraterrestrial, and more aligned to conquest or evil. Megalon is a native to earth, and guided by a people who are not evil or seeking domination.

TLDR; In a Scientist vs Genius or Agent vs Spy type division of hero/villain classes, I think Guardians vs Deities could work for Kaiju along the lines of Megalon. A lot of them are fairly neutral characters, but I detail my reasoning for categorization below.

Not sure if there’s been In-Sanctum development on Mothra outside of the Kaiju thread, but for the writeup I had done, I wrote:
CLASS = GUARDIAN? DEITY? PROTECTOR?

Looking at it case by case:

King Kong is a Protector, but I don’t think we want to give Excalibur a ton of Giant Monsters to work with.

There is no Deity synergy that I’m aware of. I can only see two Deities: Beyonder and Ares, not heroic characters.

There is no Guardian synergy that I’m aware of. From at the Guardians we have that I can see, it typically leans toward the Heroic, although, there is the Phoenix Force that is a Guardian. Other than that, if Guardians are Heroic, Mothra should be a Guardian.

We do have to get around to doing Gamera, Guardian of the Universe eventually, and he’s almost always Heroic, so, perfect fit.

King Caesar

Spoiler Alert!

I was pretty decided on King Caesar being a Guardian. Although he was Godzilla’s tag partner against Mechagodzilla, I don’t really think he was necessarily being Heroic, just loyally serving the Azumi royal family. But I also don’t think he counts as villainous when he fought Godzilla in Final Wars, because he was being mind controlled by the Xiliens (the same aliens from Invasion of the Atro Monster). Shisas, which King Caesar is based off, are guardians that ward off evil, so I doubt King Caesar would ever be used in a truly villainous role.

But what if King Caesar were asked by the Azumi royal family to take on a Megalon-like role?
I don’t know, he might listen, but I don’t think the Azumi family would ever be in the position to make a similar request.

Megalon

Spoiler Alert!

The Seatopians are much like the Atlanteans in both Marvel/DC. Godzilla vs Megalon has many shared plot elements with Fantastic Four #4. The Kingdoms of Seatopia and Atlantis were both wrecked by nuclear testing. Emperor Antonio and Namor both call upon a huge monster to punish the surface dwellers. Emperor Antonio emits a signal from Jet Jaguar to guide Megalon, and Namor has Giganto follow the sound of his trumpet.

Here are the relevant FF#4 panels:

Spoiler Alert!

And the Seatopian speech about nuclear testing from the surface world destroying their kingdom, and his call to Megalon:

Spoiler Alert!

When Jet Jaguar’s creator retakes control of JJ, Megalon goes on a directionless, mindless rampage. The Seatopians hear that JJ is seeking Godzilla for help, so Emperor Antonio asks the M Space Hunter Nebula Aliens to send Gigan for assistance. They have a common enemy in mankind, so it’s a pretty smart strategic move.

Spoiler Alert!

So while Megalon and the Seatopians aren’t really evil, Gigan is, and thematically, probably shouldn’t be working alongside Mothra. Megalon is certainly a deity, as he is worshipped, and lies dormant until summoned, so Deity should work for him.

Daimajin

Spoiler Alert!

King Caesar has a lot in common with another Toku character, Daimajin. He is a spirit/god that possess stone idols of him when his worshippers beg for help, and offer a sacrifice.
At least in the first movie, he comes to aid moments before the sacrifice is made, but is brutal and too destructive when active, so the villager begs for him to stop, offering him her life. He is satisfied by the offer, and leaves without requiring a sacrifice. Not a hero or villain, but not nice. Deity seems a good fit.

Spoiler Alert!

Varan

Spoiler Alert!

Varan, The Unbelievable is titled such, because the movie is about how there is a village that worships the god “Baradagi,” where locals pray not to upset him, and will not enter his nearby lake area. But outsiders don’t believe in Baragadi, thinking it a superstition.
I don’t see it mentioned in his wiki entries, but the theme of the movie was kind of, “believe it,” and to respect traditions surrounding belief.
Even though the non-believers think him to be an ancient dinosaur, there are elements of the supernatural leading up to his appearance that make me think he’s an actual Deity:
Biologists looking for rare butterflies ignore the unwelcoming villagers, and as soon as they move toward the sacred area, there is a small earthquake. They press onward, and their car gets stuck. They get out, and find the rare butterfly, and kill it to capture it. As soon as they kill the butterfly, a rockslide crushes the men, but inspectors find no natural cause of a landslide.
Friends and family inspect the area to find the cause of their deaths, and a fog suddenly rolls in and out, luring in the visitors and the whole village (except the priest) to the lake, where Varan emerges, killing people and destroying the village.
A very punishing god in his solo appearance, I think Deity is appropriate.

Spoiler Alert!

Manda

Spoiler Alert!

Manda is the guardian of the undersea Empire of Mu. Unlike their Seatopian counterparts, the Muans are actually determined to retake the surface world, and are more villainous. They worship Manda, performing ritual dances in his name, and offering their captives as sacrifices. However, other than being a sea dragon, there’s nothing supernatural to suggest that he is anything more than a guard dog, and is not depicted as personally aligned toward good or evil. Both Guardian and Deity are appropriate. I kind of lean toward Guardian, just because of the neutrality and lack of a supernatural element, and he's not summoned by anyone.

Spoiler Alert!

Final Roll Call-
Guardians:
Mothra
Gamera
King Caesar
Manda

Deities:
Megalon
Daimajin
Varan

Cultists are a class in C3G that I always wanted to see expanded on, and it would be cool to see some Cultists that could summon Deities.

[MrNobody]

Fwiw, we did take the Deity callout thing to a group vote and voted against it.

Sounds like you want to LD some Kaiju.

[toyhandle]

I spent a good amount of time researching and writing that, can I hear the reasoning behind voting against it?

[MrNobody]

Sure, a few reasons. I'm not a Kaiju dude, so I may be forgetting some or misinterpreting them.

1) I think you're taking a very literal stance on Invader class based on a blurb we quickly wrote to explain some design updates we made. We believe Megalon meets the literal definition of Invader (one who invades) while fitting the general aesthetic the class already has. (Goofy sci-fi stuff!)

2) We felt like some of the justification provided was a bit weak or took some stretches with the source material, such as attributing events in Varan to the supernatural.

3) We didn't want these dudes to have or give synergy with Ares and Beyonder. Like we agreed that Gigan/Ares makes a little bit of sense as a combo (or at least that it doesn't make anti-sense), but giving anybody synergy with Beyonder sounds like a general mistake.

We did take some time to see if another class would fit (like Subterranean or Scourge, as some examples), but everything we thought of seemed to have issues with it.

Ultimately there's also very little thematic pull to play these dudes with each other. We try to always put thought and care into "future-proofing" designs we make, but I think basing part of Gigan's card off of what we might do on Megalon's card if we want Megalon to share a synergy web with a bunch of other C-list Toho monsters (some of which don't have comics and/or figures) was a bit of a step too far for most people.

I will say this honestly and earnestly (since I know I've poked a bit of fun in the past), if you want to have an increased voice in C3G design discussions, try your hand at designing! It grants you a wider influence in conversations like this and the ability to more greatly shape the direction we take, especially if it's a character you LD.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

It wasn't something we just dismissed out of hand. I spent a lot of time pestering people to give me thoughts on it Especially considering I actively dislike Megalon and don't care about him

Part of the thing with Deity in particular was like... Deity in C3G is for hella big time gods / god like things?

Not just "something somebody somewhere worships". No one really worships Beyonder. The character has to have the power of a deity. Proper world altering stuff.

Like Thor and such isn't even one, so having a 3rd stringer Kaiju like Megalon (or an... idk 8th stringer... like Varan ) up on that level was kinda considered a non-starter.

We did run through some other options, including trying to find a 'local monster god' class that made any sense for Gigan to call out. But nothing really sparked any joy. Especially for Megalon where he fit the C3G definition of Invader fine. They don't have to be exclusively from outer space or anything.

It's just a lot cleaner mechanically for Megalon to have the bad guy monster class and work in that faction naturally than have Gigan call out a different class just for him. And pulling in Varan or samurai thing no one had heard didn't really offer a compelling reason to fight with it any more than we already did since they don't really have a terribly pressing reason to hang with Gigan and Megalon anyway. And have basically a zero percent chance of being designed at all if its not a toy handle LD.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

But to be clear, definitely appreciate you taking the time to write out your reasonings and such.