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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #1  
Old August 8th, 2018, 02:15 PM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
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AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

Straight up stealing from this thread, read the basic idea there:

Heroscape Power Rankings

A few differences/things to note.

1. This is just one guyís opinion. If it generates chatter I have no problem updating this with a consensus. And hopefully it does, Iím a big fan of this game.
2. I thought it made more sense to organize the list by card color rather than by rank. Youíre more limited in your squad choices based on the PW you choose compared to Heroscape. Planeswalkers are at the top of each color. Within the colors the cards are sorted by rank, then cost, then alphabetically.
3. For the army cards, Iím going to attempt to incorporate the Whatís in an order marker? color code. It doesnít apply 100% simply because there are no order markers in AotP. But you still have to choose a card at the beginning of your turn and this could help with the choice. And like the above, input will be appreciated and incorporated.
4. Rankings of army cards are not taking spells into consideration, this is just ranking the army cards. You could easily take a group like the Phoenixes and turn them into an endless wave of 5 dice attacks, but you can boost every team in various ways with spells. Iím just talking about base value.
5. Based on some feedback, rankings where adjusted a bit, and 2 color PWs are included twice, once for each color.
6. Iíve ranked all the spell cards as well. Theyíre sorted in the same way, color->rank->cost->alphabetical.

Army Cards
Spoiler Alert!


Spell Cards
Spoiler Alert!


I think I got every card in the game, but let me know if I missed any. The format of the spells list is tough to read so Iím trying to figure that out, any ideas on how to make it look pretty would be appreciated too

Last edited by shaolin; September 5th, 2018 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Updates
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  #2  
Old August 20th, 2018, 07:11 PM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Draft

I personally haven't played Arena of the Planeswalkers, but I think that Power Rankings like this generate discussion and can strengthen the community (just look at how much talk has resulted from the classic lists). Unfortunately, I can't contribute much here (mostly due to my lack of experience with the game), but from what I do understand, I think that the power levels of these units will be subject to much more variation than classic HeroScape units on account of the different Planeswalkers and spells.

I feel like it would make sense to also rank each of the spell cards. I'm sure that there are spells that can make weaker squads stronger and the like, and since the cards are already included in the army-building process, it makes sense to also try to rank them as well.

There is something that I disagree with, though:
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Originally Posted by shaolin View Post
3. The scale is slightly different than the scale in the Heroscape ranking thread. Itís curved to give PWs higher rankings since picking one is mandatory. No PW is less than a B-, and no creature is higher than A-. The idea is that even the worst PW has value because they allow you to pick those stronger units in the first place. Iím open to suggestion with the ranking scale too.
A bad figure is a bad figure, regardless of how important to your army they are. Unless that bad figure is inextricably tied to another exceptional figure (such as classic's Kato Katsuro and Ashigaru, or Spartacus and Capuan Gladiators) that redeems them, I see no reason to inflate scores. If a Planeswalker is below average, then I think that should be reflected with a rank below B, and creatures should be allowed to reach as high as A+ if need be.

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Old August 20th, 2018, 07:57 PM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Draft

They are tricky to rank, that’s for sure. Especially because you can take a weaker squad and beef them up, that changes the rankings mid-game in most cases. Also tricky to pick what the roles on the team would be, that can vary based on your squad. I just tried to pick the ones that made the most sense.

Ranking the spells is a great idea! Don’t know why I didn’t think of it. That will take a little effort, but I’m on it.

The 3rd part makes sense. The only rankings that could probably change are Nahiri, Gideon, and the Reavers. The PWs might be more like C+, and the Reavers A+ (the Reavers can tear things to shreds quickly).
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Old August 21st, 2018, 09:15 AM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Draft

I like the ranking idea. You already have placed the PWs at the top of each color list. Perhaps, instead of listing the multi color PWs in the Gold section, place the listing for those PWs in each of the colors that they use. Each color has 3 PWs that can use those spells. In that way, I could compare all of the PWs that can use Black together. Adding the spells to that would interesting as well. A 25 point spell should be better than a 10 point spell, but is it always true?
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Old August 21st, 2018, 06:22 PM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targanth View Post
I like the ranking idea. You already have placed the PWs at the top of each color list. Perhaps, instead of listing the multi color PWs in the Gold section, place the listing for those PWs in each of the colors that they use. Each color has 3 PWs that can use those spells. In that way, I could compare all of the PWs that can use Black together. Adding the spells to that would interesting as well. A 25 point spell should be better than a 10 point spell, but is it always true?
I like that. Updated
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 09:56 AM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: WIP

Bump because I added the spells
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  #7  
Old September 4th, 2018, 07:06 PM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

Having now played the game, I'd argue that both the Necro-Alchemist and Lantern Geists are at least an A, if not an A+.

The Necro-Alchemist has a nasty ruling from Hasbro that you can remove multiple markers per turn to further increase his attack, which lets him get up to a base attack of 9, potentially one-shotting a Planeswalker. Even if he misses, though, I've found that properly defending him and doing a burst of spells brings him back up to full charge in minimal time, letting him devastate another figure all over again. Honestly, I feel like the charge marker ruling kind of breaks him, albeit I haven't played with all of the colors yet to see if they also have such a super powerful unit.

As for the Lantern Geists, they bring an insane value for only 30 points. 4 life with 4 defense is tough to burst through, especially when they can fully heal themselves and reposition every time that your Planeswalker takes a turn. They might not have any great offensive potential, but they excel at tying down key targets to defend more costly units. That's also before taking into account the great deck control that they give you over your opponent, which would be pretty good on its own. The Leyline Phantoms are also good, of course, but these guys can be far more frustrating and take up far fewer points.

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Old September 4th, 2018, 09:03 PM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

I could see raising both of them. But to play devils advocate a bit...

The only weakness I see with the Necro-Alchemist is that you play spells pretty often with Jace. It’s rare that you sit with cards for too many turns. And if you do 9 dice rolls you only get 4 of them, at best. Great if they’re at the PW, sometimes wasted on squads if you get surrounded. I’ve found that there are some late game situations where you could use 2 extra dice but are out of charges. I could see bumping him up to A- given that.

You make a good point for the Geists. I think they’re the cheapest squad in the game, and you can summon them in and out to heal. Only negative is they lose enchantments when unsummomed, so that is something to consider if you were trying to beef them up at all. But they have great value for the cost, calling them discount Phantoms probably wasn’t fair. I’ll agree with you for them.
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Old September 5th, 2018, 12:55 AM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

It's true that Jace likes using his spells instead of letting them pile up, but that just charges the Necro-Alchemist even faster. 9 attack dice is still much higher than normal, and while it'll average 4.5 hits, that's still far more than the number of blocks that most enemies will be expecting to roll. Unless the target has 14 or more defense dice, you'll be expecting to deal at least some more damage, although I believe that he'll almost always cause plenty of destruction. His main weakness is definitely the fact that he can only get one attack per turn (along with struggling in the endgame, but he excels at the earlier-mid portion to make up for it), but when it's so powerful, the option is good regardless. I don't think he's as infallible as the Lantern Geists, but I'd say that he's definitely a solid A for how easily he can get that deadly attack.

I haven't toyed around with Green enough yet to know how much the Geists benefit from better Enchantments, but I think that there are probably better suited squads for them anyway. I'd much rather enchant another squad with more members that can take advantage of the boon than the Geists, so losing enchantments for an unsummon doesn't feel like much of a loss at all. They remind me of the Deathreavers from classic HeroScape quite a bit: both are difficult to kill and able to tie down enemy figures, all without ever needing to take dedicated turns with them.

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Old September 5th, 2018, 10:56 AM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

N-A definitely takes some management. You have to clear those chargers, otherwise casting a spell is a waste (as far as he’s concerned). I will concede if you get him in early and use him often, he’s a wrecking ball. Just when compared to say the Kessig Ravagers, who I rated A-, I don’t know if I choose him over them if I’m playing with Kiora. I’ll give it some more thought, and update tonight when I’m near my laptop. (I did most of this on my phone but it’s a pain)
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Old September 6th, 2018, 09:42 PM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
It's true that Jace likes using his spells instead of letting them pile up, but that just charges the Necro-Alchemist even faster. 9 attack dice is still much higher than normal, and while it'll average 4.5 hits, that's still far more than the number of blocks that most enemies will be expecting to roll. Unless the target has 14 or more defense dice, you'll be expecting to deal at least some more damage, although I believe that he'll almost always cause plenty of destruction. His main weakness is definitely the fact that he can only get one attack per turn (along with struggling in the endgame, but he excels at the earlier-mid portion to make up for it), but when it's so powerful, the option is good regardless. I don't think he's as infallible as the Lantern Geists, but I'd say that he's definitely a solid A for how easily he can get that deadly attack.

I haven't toyed around with Green enough yet to know how much the Geists benefit from better Enchantments, but I think that there are probably better suited squads for them anyway. I'd much rather enchant another squad with more members that can take advantage of the boon than the Geists, so losing enchantments for an unsummon doesn't feel like much of a loss at all. They remind me of the Deathreavers from classic HeroScape quite a bit: both are difficult to kill and able to tie down enemy figures, all without ever needing to take dedicated turns with them.
Alright, I met you half way on the Necro Alchemist. A for the potential 9 dice attack, the minus due to late game struggles. I figured thatís the most fair way, since itís only 2 of us with a difference of opinion.

I have the Lantern Geists some more thought, and I really would pick them over pretty much any team. I bumped them to A+. You made a lot of good points for them
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Old September 6th, 2018, 11:08 PM
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Re: AotP Power Rankings: Army and Spell cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin View Post
Alright, I met you half way on the Necro Alchemist. A for the potential 9 dice attack, the minus due to late game struggles. I figured that’s the most fair way, since it’s only 2 of us with a difference of opinion.

I have the Lantern Geists some more thought, and I really would pick them over pretty much any team. I bumped them to A+. You made a lot of good points for them
It's definitely fair. I do still think that he's an A-tier figure, but it's close enough that arguing about that minus doesn't make much of a difference, and not many others have weighed in yet.

I definitely agree with the Lantern Geists being A+. They're the first card that I'm drafting after my Planeswalker just about every time that I can.

I'll have to take a closer look at the colors beyond Blue and play some games with them when I get a chance to see if I have anything to suggest on the other units.

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Last edited by Astroking112; September 7th, 2018 at 02:17 AM. Reason: Fixed some minor wording.
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