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  #1  
Old January 7th, 2008, 07:46 PM
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Aren't the EIs overpriced when compared to the Monks?

EIs: worth 140, have double attack, can disengage with stealth fly. Meanwhile, Monks: worth 80, have multiple attack (up to six if surrounded), can disengage with stealth leap.

Some differences are suttle. For instance, the Monks cannot attack the same figure twice, while the EIs can. Stealth Fly can also get you farther than Stealth Leap, etc.

Nevertheless, two squads of Monks are worth 160, while you need 280 to get two squads of EIs. That's a 120 points difference! IMO it is not really justifiable. I mean, you need only 20 more points to add Master Woo, who is worth 140, to the Monks, or you can add a whole other squad of Monks to play with 9 (three squads) and still have 40 points left. The Monks will likely last longer given their higher numbers (same defense) and have the potential to attack more per turn than the EIs.

Don't forget that both squads have 3 attack dice and 3 defense dice. However, with Master Woo's Influence, the Monks would get an additional attack and an additional defense die within and aura of two. Kiova adds defense to the EIs for 90 points with a wider aura, but no attack.

It's true that with the EIs you can move faster and gain height advantage faster. That does not eliminate the potential of up to six attacks for each monk per turn to different figures.

By the way, if you don't have Master Woo, and I don't have it myself, you can always mark one of the Monks and print out Master Woo's card and use the marked monk as if it were Mr. Woo.

In my book. If I have to choose between these two, it seems that under most scenarios, the Monks are are better choice. Does anybody share this opinion? The only concervable scenario in which the EIs might be better than the Monks is in a very mountainous map.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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  #2  
Old January 7th, 2008, 07:59 PM
The Super Atheist The Super Atheist is offline
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Castle assualts. Imperium. They can choose who to be engaged with due to stealth flying, and then be able to withdrawl easier too. Six attacks always.
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  #3  
Old January 7th, 2008, 09:12 PM
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It's a tough call. I just played a game where two squads of my monks, boosted by Master Woo, faced five squads of zombies and there were times when a monk would only be engaged with a solitary zombie because the fight was so crowded. In that situation, being able to attack the same target twice would've been useful. I like the monks, but I guess what you're paying for with the Imperium is flexibility - they work well against swarms and low-medium defense heroes, while the monks are really best against the former.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 10:11 PM
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Monks cannot move as far with their disengaging power. They can not go as high with their movement. If engaged to a single figure, they may only attack once.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Monks quite a lot. However, they are not as consistant as the Imperium. The Einar kyrie are more reliable.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 10:35 PM
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Double Attack is definitely my preference over conditional multiple attacks that can only be targeted at certain figures and only if prerequisites are met. Some people tend to look at a unit and imagine what it can do in a good situation: Up to six attacks per monk! What a deal! This is always a temptation, but I try to make myself focus on what they can do in a bad scenario. That's where the Double Attack looks better. And Marvel just pumps up its value even more.

Also, the EI are soldiers, which is worth something because of Marcus.

All expensive units have another hidden benefit: increasing the collective speed of the army. You mentioned the fact that you can buy three squads of monks with 40 points left over and send them against two squads of EI. Monks x3 and rats x1 will take four order markers to move all units in the army, while EI x2 moves all figures in just two!

As far as I'm concerned, the two are in the same boat: fairly priced compared to most heroes, unique squads, and melee commons, but like so many other things in Heroscape, begging for death at the hands of ranged commons. I mean, EI x2 aren't going to win against 4th Mass. Line x4, and neither are Monks x3 going to beat Stingers x4.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 10:59 PM
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All you have to do is spread out, so their budget multi attack is useless.

I could see the Imperium/kiova army as a possible counter to a monk/woo army of similar points.

I have used them without marcus and they filled thier 140 points.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Super Atheist
All you have to do is spread out, so their budget multi attack is useless.
Sure, they can spread out, but will they? I don't know what it is, but my opponents' squads never fail to walk right into a shotgun blast, and as for grenades? Every time we play, it's like they've never read the Airborne's card before. It's one of the most frequent mistakes at my house. Does anyone else run into this?
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  #8  
Old January 7th, 2008, 11:23 PM
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This is all valuable input. I'm still leaning towards the monks, however. Two squads of each and you still have 120 points for someone like Kaemon to backup the monks? What would you guys pick EIX2 = 280 or MonksX2=160+Kaemon =280? I will have to play these units more, but in terms of value for the money the Monks still seem like a better bet.

Just as it is in the case of the Monks, who might not have more than one opponent to attack adjacent to them, the EIs also run into that dilemma with their double attack. The EIs have more tactical flexibility, but are two squads of EIs really worth 120 more than two squads of monks? You could even add StingersX2 or a squad of Nakitas. It would take more than the arguments above to convince me. What about Grimmak + Heavy GrutsX2= 260? What about WofAX5 = 250?

I guess that at the end it partially comes down to who gets the first turns, map elevations, etc.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Super Atheist
All you have to do is spread out, so their budget multi attack is useless.
Sure, they can spread out, but will they? I don't know what it is, but my opponents' squads never fail to walk right into a shotgun blast, and as for grenades? Every time we play, it's like they've never read the Airborne's card before. It's one of the most frequent mistakes at my house. Does anyone else run into this?
No! It seems that everyone here spreads their guys out so well that area effect weapons are almost useless.

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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:11 AM
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The EIs are overpriced when compared to pretty much anything.

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  #11  
Old January 8th, 2008, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissimus
The EIs are overpriced when compared to pretty much anything.
Yep. I chose to compare against the monks at first given the similarities: 3 per squad, 3 attack dice, 3 defense dice, stealth leap vs. stealth fly, double attack vs. multiple attack. The squads are very similar, but one costs 75% more than the other. Unless the map is very mountainous, I will not be drafting the EIs anytime soon.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM
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I can't justify playing the Imperium unless I have both Kiova and Raelin. Have you ever tried to kill and EI with a ranged common that was backed by both Kiova and Raelin? It's really hard without an attack that bypasses defense.

Now, would the monks be good backed by both Woo and Raelin? Of course, but it's much more difficult and limiting to keep them close enough to Woo and Raelin.

I'll also mention that the Monks can also get the movement bonus granted by Acolarh (no, it goes nowhere is cancelling out Marcus' bonus in this comparison, but i thought I'd throw it out there).

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