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  #313  
Old October 10th, 2020, 01:44 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Looking over the playtests, the Velnesh do seem to be in a very good place. Of 9 tests, three times they did about 1/3 of their value in damage, three times they did 50% more, twice they didn't do anything, and once they were spot on. Obviously damage isn't everything (this would suggest all told we drop them by 25%), and even in the games where they weren't actually getting kills they consistently tied things up which has value.

A quick summary of some comments is also highly positive:
  • fast against range [which is how we wanted them to feel] (+)
  • bland if they don't blink [to be fair that's most things that don't get to use their powers] (-)
  • simple and effective (+)
  • lots of good/fun positioning options (+)
  • easy to understand and fun to play against [fun against is a very good sign] (+)

I had suggested swapping their points with the Ukushisa, and after going through the tests I still think 90 is better for them than 100. After all, they have to survive to get any use out of Blink (see the one negative comment). That also brings me to this suggestion:


Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
If/when you do look over the results, keep this question in mind please

Quote:
I am wondering if we should lower their attack to 3. If we do that we could probably lower their points. We might also raise their defense... I was playing them and thinking about how we wanted to have more variety in defense values in the Master Set.
I'm not completely opposed to it. It would help shore up the one slight negative against them. However on the flip side it could make them frustrating to play against, which would eliminate a much bigger positive. I think we have other opportunities to vary stat values (I have a couple other places to suggest 5D) and 3A is actually already common anyway. If someone wants to do testing at 3A/5D, go for it. But I think their playtesting shows them in a good spot at 4/4 (and 90 points).


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  #314  
Old October 10th, 2020, 02:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

As someone who had previously been concerned about these guys potentially overshadowing the Ninjas a bit at 90 points, I think that it'd be fine after having played them. The Velnesh's lack of really good survivability definitely helps keep them and their speed in check, and Shift gives them a lot of chances to nab height or otherwise get the drop on unsuspecting targets.

Ironically, at 3A/5D, I think that the price would probably go up. That's a pretty significant buff to Blink and would result in them getting faster and harder to ignore as defender units (especially against melee). The loss of 4 attack certainly hurts them as assassins, but the higher their defense, the more feasible they become as a screen with fewer Order Markers on them. I'm not opposed to turning them into defenders in principle, but it would need testing to ensure that they don't become too frustrating to fight against. I can try to run a game with them at that statline when I have the time to see how it feels.

Of course, 3A/4D (which I think was caps' main suggestion) is the same level of survivability that we currently have and just tuning down their offensive potential. That feels more promising as an alternative if we want to drop their points, though I have to say that the good offensive power of 4A is a significant part of what made them feel like actual threats to try and eliminate.
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  #315  
Old October 10th, 2020, 02:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
The loss of 4 attack certainly hurts them as assassins, but the higher their defense, the more feasible they become as a screen with fewer Order Markers on them. I'm not opposed to turning them into defenders in principle, but it would need testing to ensure that they don't become too frustrating to fight against.
I think, given our Squad options, the Velnesh make the most sense as a high-offense "assassin" type Squad (with the Ukushisa also packing a punch and the Illusions bringing a ranged threat). "Defender" units can/are being done elsewhere like the Alabasters (one or more shadow-zombie Squads will likely end up being "tough" [with or without the power] and the Scions could go either way, though there has been talk of a high D unit).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
though I have to say that the good offensive power of 4A is a significant part of what made them feel like actual threats to try and eliminate.
Agreed. They're Menacing alien Experiments and 4A is part of them feeling that way.


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  #316  
Old October 12th, 2020, 09:08 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Thanks Necro, I'm glad the results are looking good. Do we want to hold out for some more playtests?

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #317  
Old October 12th, 2020, 08:55 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

I've said it before but these are probably the best design of any of them.
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  #318  
Old October 13th, 2020, 07:00 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

How does everyone feel about the 90 point proposal? I don't think it'll make to much difference testing-wise, but if we make that change, I think we can run a few more then they're probably ready.


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  #319  
Old October 13th, 2020, 07:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

to 90 points.

My customs.
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  #320  
Old October 13th, 2020, 08:15 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

I don't have any qualms with 90 points so long as we're comfortable with running some more tests.
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  #321  
Old October 13th, 2020, 09:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

90 is good.
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  #322  
Old October 18th, 2020, 01:22 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Updating the OP to 90. Let's run a small variety of tests again here, then get ready to have a complete unit.


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  #323  
Old October 19th, 2020, 09:48 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

90 works for me.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #324  
Old November 10th, 2020, 11:11 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

This weekend I had the opportunity to run a game with the Velnesh Alphas. A friend visisted and we had one game of 500 points. (Still used the 100P version)

The design of the Velnesh Alphas definitely felt great. Both my friend playing them, and me as opponent had ample things to think about. I like that you can blink out of range of an opponent's ranged squat when the first one misses. I like that they have speudo-flying, and can control advantageous locations for ranged units. Sadly my friend had some bad rolls and lost one of the alphas pretty early on.

Points-wise I cannot really make any valuable statements. They did not feel overpowered, nor underpowered.

The point made by Necroblade about whiffing with their ability was definitely true in our game. My friend never got a succesfull defense :P. However, the threat of the opponent getting to use that ability in and of itself is valuable in its own right. As a player, you get to use their Blink ability each movement, so it does not hurt that badly when you do not get to use it in combat.
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