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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #1  
Old February 1st, 2016, 08:26 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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How many unit archetypes are there?

I imagine you could take this to extremes and just end up with the conclusion that every army card is unique in some way, doh!


But if you come from the other direction and imagine breaking down units (both individual hero figures and squads), how would you classify them on the first level and perhaps Another level underneath that one


for example


"ranged campers" would be those you just park at the edges without really wanting to move and take pop shots at range
(4th mass)


"melee brawlers" are the ones you dive into big Groups to wreak havoc at Close combat
(Krug)


"runners" would be fast moving agile and would perhaps go out and grab glyphs (the rats)


maybe youd have "balanced" that could do a bit of Everything


maybe you could classify them by attack/defence Dice also, like "Heavy hitting weaklings", "light hitting mountaints" (low attack, high def)






it seems very often that in threads discussing armies, its common that someone says "yeah but this or that squad is not as good as this one that do more or less the same thing", or "this squad is basically that squad but with an extra attack die".


Has anyone tried to classify units in a more generic kind of way like this?
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  #2  
Old February 1st, 2016, 08:35 AM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

This thread is probably the most important strategy thread to read on the entire site (which is why it is stickied in the Heroscape Strategy Articles forum), and answers your question and more:

What's in an Order Marker?

Also, check out the "New? Start here!" link in my signature for links to other must reads.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 09:04 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

thanks again
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  #4  
Old February 1st, 2016, 09:32 AM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

@ekoxe1

While the article lefton4ya linked is by far one of, if not the best write up on strategy it doesn't mean you should give up your thinking. It is worth noting that Jexik wrote it over 8 years ago, so you may have something new to add to the discussion.

If you are really serious about looking into heroscape strategy, you may want to look through the "Best Thread Library" in my sig. Knowing about types of units is only the start, different methods of play, timing, and other aspects of the game can give you a more in depth understanding of the game.


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  #5  
Old February 1st, 2016, 10:01 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

Thanks, I should say that I'm not really thinking about strategy in a "tournament" type mind, so maybe its of no use to people, this is more trying to put together some army builds for my kids, but for example my son loves the vipers, so I have put together a Group of Vipers with the Fen Hydra and will add the Armocs and Onyx vipers. He will love that, but I know that army has no range, but I would rather keep it looking cool, so it would be nice to know, OK, which figures are "long range campers", then which is the best from that Group, OK lets say its Zetacron, then I will simply paint or modify a viper, or add a custom figure, replicate Zetacrons stats and make it a "viper with a crossbow", that way his army will have someone in the "long range shooter" class but still be able to have a big gang of snakes.

So its much more aimed at casual / thematic interest than "strategy" in that sense.

Also then if a Group of Romans is in a similar archetype to the Greeks, then rather than spend Money trying to get all of that lot, I'll just get the Romans, perhaps multiple copies of squads instead of having one of Everything.

Or maybe a Group of Orcs or Dwarves are kind of similar in "archetype", in which case I'll probably just throw some multiple orc squads round an Ogre and skip the dwarves (crazy prices), or just Proxy in some dwarf minis and leave out the orcs

knowing that a unit is "best in class" was more just to copy stats from that unit onto a different model to give variety and "balance" (nothing tournament level, just having a giant figure, some squads, a special unit, one that can shoot, one that brawls etc) but maybe thats just me being a nerd and instead its better to let the kids pick their themed Groups and just see how a swarming snake army fares against a bunch of minutemen lined across a wall across the map.

sorry if this was a **** thread...
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Old February 1st, 2016, 12:55 PM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

When we play (it's just my son and I) We use mostly themed armies. All the tournament threads are still worth using. Building a themed army requires decisions regarding the same strategic elements.

One of the really cool things about Heroscape is that units that seem the same on the surface end up playing very differently (Greeks vs Romans). This does not help your dilemma.

But another really cool thing is that just because units are deemed not great for tournaments does not mean that they are not fun to play or even competitive. This does help you, because you can buy multiples of the cheaper commons and have a lot of fun playing. Get the blade gruts or arrow gruts with the accompanying heroes instead of trying to collect all the orcs, for example. Per above, though, each orc army type does play a little differently.

On the question of range for your viper army, I like the vipers and basically treat the venocs like ranged units, since they are going to die soon after engagement. Launch the missiles!

To help with the questions you have, I would suggest Battleplan: http://battleplan.mythacle.com/heroscape/

You can filter in all sorts of ways.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 01:14 PM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

You might also take a look at the faction list put together by @Evar-Scarcarver which goes into different thematic "factions" and the different types of units within those factions. There are others I am sure.
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  #8  
Old February 1st, 2016, 02:52 PM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

It's possible that instead of looking at unit archetypes you may be wanting to look at army archetypes here (as in how many types of fairly competitive army builds are there?). Then you can get a better idea of what types of units there are in those different armies and how to build those different armies. For instance, an army built out of Knights and their Champions (slow melee bonders) and an army built out of range and meat shields (like Gladiatrons and Blastatrons) can be equally effective, but play completely differently.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #9  
Old February 1st, 2016, 03:26 PM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

great, thanks guys.
I know you're right, for example, an Orc/Ogre group I already have the arrow and blade gruts, and Krug, Brunak, Grimnak etc. I dont "need" the heavy gruts, and I can easily pretend the gruts are different types if I did want to see how it played

but surely you must also know how it is that something inside taunts you and makes you want to get the actual figures. haha
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  #10  
Old February 2nd, 2016, 10:45 PM
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekoxe1 View Post
great, thanks guys.
...
but surely you must also know how it is that something inside taunts you and makes you want to get the actual figures. haha

I am a completionist. I could not stand the fact that there might be parts of the game I might be missing.
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  #11  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 08:51 AM
ekoxe1 ekoxe1 is offline
 
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Re: How many unit archetypes are there?

The other reasoning behind this thread is just more of a way to focus down to some core types of units, so if the sacred band are "just Another kind of Roman legionnaires, which are just Another kind of 10th regiment" then I could more easily convince myself not to buy a 4th, a 10th, a sacred band, a legionnaires and a roman Archers, instead I'd get 2 or 3 squads of both types of romans and add Marcus as a leader. later on I might try out the sacred band and parmenio but to a beginner, those might not feel THAT different to Romans (yes I know you expert players will see the difference)

does that make more sense?
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